The fate of the Dawn Star and the Archangels

jgnfld wrote:

DMcCunney wrote:...
I did have the random though that it I wanted to keep Hamilcar around, but wanted to make it exceptionally unlikely to be detected, I might see if I could stash it on Langhorne and cover it over. It would be close at hand and easy enough to uncover by anyone that could get to it in the first place.
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Dennis

Just park it on the back side. No need for burial. Close at hand, no possibility of being discovered so long as the induced social matrix holds.

You don't want to "just park it". While 1000 years isn't all that long, cosmically, there'd always be the chance some (even small) meteorite would damage it. You'd at least want to build a tunnel into actual rock to house it.

Randomiser wrote:For the benefit of those who are newer on the Forum, RFC has said that Langhorne's plan was for all the expedition's ships to be dropped into the sun as the need for them diminished. Hamilcar was the last of them. He has also, wilfully, said that 'Hamilcar is gone.' The debate arises out of the perceived ambiguity of that last statement.

What, you expected a straight answer from RFC? where's the fun in that?

Well, "gone" doesn't necessarily mean "dropped into the local sun".

I have a sneaking suspicion about what might have happened to it, but I'd need more detail from RFC on the drive technology the TF used to know whether my suspicion is valid.
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Dennis

DMcCunney wrote:

Randomiser wrote:For the benefit of those who are newer on the Forum, RFC has said that Langhorne's plan was for all the expedition's ships to be dropped into the sun as the need for them diminished. Hamilcar was the last of them. He has also, wilfully, said that 'Hamilcar is gone.' The debate arises out of the perceived ambiguity of that last statement.

What, you expected a straight answer from RFC? where's the fun in that?

Well, "gone" doesn't necessarily mean "dropped into the local sun".

I have a sneaking suspicion about what might have happened to it, but I'd need more detail from RFC on the drive technology the TF used to know whether my suspicion is valid.
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Dennis

As long as you aren't thinking "Relativistic Journey around the edge of the system to preserve the lives of any still living Archangels"

This is my first time to post in the forums...

I have had a pet theory about this I would like to see what everyone thinks about it.

OK… Someone sets off a pocket nuke which takes out all your assets, on planet, except a few personal. All you have left is a ship in orbit, so if you reconfigure the ship by removing excess decks, then land said ship in the crater made by the pocket nuke, and fill in the crater covering the largest part of the ship. After the war is over you could block off the lower part of the ship and use the part visible above ground for the temple. Also place the AI on maintenance mode, so it will keep everything running and would keep the AI from going catatonic for running to long. You could set an alarm for the AI to come back online in 1000 years. When the AI comes back online I can only see 3 options you could have placed for the AI.

(1)Everything and running as plan re-set alarm, back to maintenance mode.

(2) There have been a few glitches use hologram of archangels to threaten/preach people back in line if needed level a city or two to show the anger of god and frighten everyone. AI goes into surveillance mode until everything is running as planned.

(3) Technology has spread across the planet and there is no going back. The only option at this point is to go with the plan that was their real mission. The AI, the manufacturing facilities and the ship would then be used to start re-educating the peoples and getting them ready for the Gbaba.

Joat42 wrote:I thought the memories from the PICA was re-integrated into the real person afterwards, ie. the person get 2 sets of memories for the same period. That was kind of the whole point, you could use the PICA to do insane stuff and then have the memories transferred back.

Yes and maybe. You get the PICA memories, it's just never been made explicit AFAIK what happens to the flesh and blood while those are being made. Two entirely valid sets of memories for the same time might be kind of schizophrenic.

Joat42 wrote:But there may be a bunch of personality-recordings stored somewhere. One of the suggestions on the out of order snippet was that Alexandria had a storage of many thousands of personality recordings which got obliterated in the first strike.

So what if there are no PICAs to put them in?

Randomiser wrote:Yes and maybe. You get the PICA memories, it's just never been made explicit AFAIK what happens to the flesh and blood while those are being made. Two entirely valid sets of memories for the same time might be kind of schizophrenic.

Why would it be a problem? Memories don't have built-in timestamps. You would have memories of both what you and the PICA did during that time, that's all. You would know they were at the same time but there wouldn't be any crazy two-points-of-view or the like.

Randomiser wrote:

Joat42 wrote:I thought the memories from the PICA was re-integrated into the real person afterwards, ie. the person get 2 sets of memories for the same period. That was kind of the whole point, you could use the PICA to do insane stuff and then have the memories transferred back.

Yes and maybe. You get the PICA memories, it's just never been made explicit AFAIK what happens to the flesh and blood while those are being made. Two entirely valid sets of memories for the same time might be kind of schizophrenic.

Joat42 wrote:But there may be a bunch of personality-recordings stored somewhere. One of the suggestions on the out of order snippet was that Alexandria had a storage of many thousands of personality recordings which got obliterated in the first strike.

So what if there are no PICAs to put them in?

Might be an argument in favor of Hamill are having PICA specs they were planning in building PICAs for them after the 300 year waiting period was over.

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Yes and maybe. You get the PICA memories, it's just never been made explicit AFAIK what happens to the flesh and blood while those are being made. Two entirely valid sets of memories for the same time might be kind of schizophrenic.

Why would it be a problem? Memories don't have built-in timestamps. You would have memories of both what you and the PICA did during that time, that's all. You would know they were at the same time but there wouldn't be any crazy two-points-of-view or the like.

How much of a problem it would be would depend on the time period. With a standard PICA with ten day activation limit, it might not be an issue. And I suspect the sort of use a PICA would ordinarily get wouldn't be that long. You upload your personality into a PICA because you want to do something dangerous, and a PICA has a better chance of surviving. But I'd question how long most of those efforts actually took. I'd bet on a day or two in most cases. (And given what a PICA cost, you weren't casual about the risks you subjected it to.)

For longer term stuff, you'd face the sort of issue the Angels had when they created seijins for the War Against the Fallen, by recovering selected memories of Adams that had been suppressed by Bedard. When Seijin Kohdy commented in his journal about how quickly he learned to control his Hikousen, it was because he was essentially remembering what he had done before he became a colonist. They risked a nasty dis-associative personality disorder if the subject remembered too much.
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Dennis

Darcwar wrote:This is my first time to post in the forums...

I have had a pet theory about this I would like to see what everyone thinks about it.

OK… Someone sets off a pocket nuke which takes out all your assets, on planet, except a few personal. All you have left is a ship in orbit, so if you reconfigure the ship by removing excess decks, then land said ship in the crater made by the pocket nuke, and fill in the crater covering the largest part of the ship.

<Snip>

Hi Darcwar, welcome to the forums.

Other people have had similar ideas but haven't worked them out in as much detail. For me the problem is that David Weber has definitely posted that 'Hamilcar is gone' and I don't see how, 'has now become the Temple' can remotely qualify as 'gone'

I REALLY doubt that "Hamilcar" could land on planets. And even if it - somehow - could... The effect for the surface would be comparable to the tremendously powerfull nuclear bombardment. To land the mass of several millions of tons on the surface, you need torch drive that could literally give the output on the megaton per second level. The future Zion location would be glassed all over, and a large part of Haven would be dangerously irradiated by such attempt.