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Speed of Technological Development

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Speed of Technological Development
Post by McGuiness   » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:01 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:But otherwise, they'd be picking for genetic diversity so as not to create any remotely dangerous bottlenecks, and ethnic diversity if for no other reasons that to preserve a representative slice of Earth and make sure the whole of Earth's political base was behind this in full.
Strange, I read another post by RFC that IIRC stated that the military put Operation Ark together all by itself, the volunteers had no clue what they were in for, and civilian governments weren't included at all in the process, so the link to the latest Pearls is a surprise to me!

I might be tempted to agree with you here, except that Project Ark was put together in total secrecy, and the "volunteers" had no idea what they were volunteering for. Yes, the Chinese might have been asked for so many million, healthy "volunteers," but nobody outside of the military and the very highest levels of governments (and I suspect many governments were excluded) knew about Project Ark at all!

So I highly doubt the military worried too much about Earth's political base. They had the fabbers and the power to launch Operation Ark all by themselves. They simply needed 8 million colonists, and with over two billion members of the military from whom to draw, they didn't need to get those colonists from Earth. Considering the need for utmost secrecy, I absolutely astonished that they did!

Yes, there was a need to keep the genetic pool deep by all means. This was a war of attrition and destruction, and those 8 million colonists were the only ones who would make it out alive. I'm certain there were criteria to select them, and overall genetic health was probably one of those.

I find it ironic that the Chinese demanded that their people be kept together to preserve their cultural heritage, which was really pretty silly since blocking out foreign influences when you are the largest bloc of humanity and are supposed to regain technology after 3 or 4 centuries would have been awfully counterproductive. Perhaps they accepted that dealing with "Westerners" would be part of their reprogramming. (Heck, most of the planet has an epithetic fold around their eyes, so despite China's demands, it's pretty clear that there were so many Chinese that they had to be spread around just to have partners for all the Adams and Eves!)

That would have been the most peaceful approach anyway, since it would have created a truly worldwide genotype, so you wouldn't end up with any Nazi "We're the superior race" groups causing problems. (Ignoring that the Northerners might have turned more pale and their hair might have lightened after almost 1000 years. Who knows?)

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: Speed of Technological Development
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:02 pm

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McGuiness wrote:
JeffEngel wrote:But otherwise, they'd be picking for genetic diversity so as not to create any remotely dangerous bottlenecks, and ethnic diversity if for no other reasons that to preserve a representative slice of Earth and make sure the whole of Earth's political base was behind this in full.
Strange, I read another post by RFC that IIRC stated that the military put Operation Ark together all by itself, the volunteers had no clue what they were in for, and civilian governments weren't included at all in the process, so the link to the latest Pearls is a surprise to me!
Huh! Can you find that post? It'd be interesting to read them back to back and see what's left that's consistent with both. I wouldn't be shocked if some bits of the far-back-story there behind Operation Ark were genuinely inconsistent. That's unusual for RFC, but with enough details, and those (in this case) in such an out-of-the-way portion of the story, it could certainly happen.
I might be tempted to agree with you here, except that Project Ark was put together in total secrecy, and the "volunteers" had no idea what they were volunteering for. Yes, the Chinese might have been asked for so many million, healthy "volunteers," but nobody outside of the military and the very highest levels of governments (and I suspect many governments were excluded) knew about Project Ark at all!

So I highly doubt the military worried too much about Earth's political base. They had the fabbers and the power to launch Operation Ark all by themselves. They simply needed 8 million colonists, and with over two billion members of the military from whom to draw, they didn't need to get those colonists from Earth. Considering the need for utmost secrecy, I absolutely astonished that they did!
Two billion in the military? Granted, under the circumstances, the military would get every person they could use, but even with a heavily populated Solar System, and survivors from colonies, that seems a huge portion of the population - specifically, more than the military could use.

On the other hand - healthy young adult people without serious mental or emotional problems, who could still function when extinction is looking them in the face, would be exactly who the military could use and almost exactly the same class of people Operation Ark would tap for Adams and Eves, so maybe the military could have drawn "volunteers" in large part directly from their own ranks. That would help explain how they could get the people and keep it quiet.

(The overlap isn't complete - plenty of military people, especially under the Gbaba war conditions, may not be the good parents Ark would want, and many of them would be excellent officers and senior non-coms but still older than an ideal Adam or Eve. And many Adams and Eves may have been excellent material for decades of serial parenting but horrible choices for even a desperate military. But less than total overlap would still be handy reconciling competing needs.)
Yes, there was a need to keep the genetic pool deep by all means. This was a war of attrition and destruction, and those 8 million colonists were the only ones who would make it out alive. I'm certain there were criteria to select them, and overall genetic health was probably one of those.

I find it ironic that the Chinese demanded that their people be kept together to preserve their cultural heritage, which was really pretty silly since blocking out foreign influences when you are the largest bloc of humanity and are supposed to regain technology after 3 or 4 centuries would have been awfully counterproductive. Perhaps they accepted that dealing with "Westerners" would be part of their reprogramming. (Heck, most of the planet has an epithetic fold around their eyes, so despite China's demands, it's pretty clear that there were so many Chinese that they had to be spread around just to have partners for all the Adams and Eves!)
After nearly a thousand years, with 20-25% of the initial colonists being Chinese and likely no small amount of the remainder Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc... epicanthic folds have had plenty of time to migrate out of Harchong. For that matter, all those sources but the Chinese may have been scattered over the rest of Safehold, just to (1) make future racism even harder, and (2) give genetic diversity even more of a hand.
That would have been the most peaceful approach anyway, since it would have created a truly worldwide genotype, so you wouldn't end up with any Nazi "We're the superior race" groups causing problems. (Ignoring that the Northerners might have turned more pale and their hair might have lightened after almost 1000 years. Who knows?)

The Book of Bedard has a pretty good record for preparing Safeholders to be excellent to one another - Bedard herself notwithstanding. Maybe there are some injunctions in there meant to put spokes in the wheels of future racism. Just hoping that ethnic differences didn't get too visible and that no one develops ugly ideas associated with it is a bit too much like crossing your fingers and thinking happy thoughts for Ark planners - either the original ones or Langhorne's lot.
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Re: Speed of Technological Development
Post by dan92677   » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:39 pm

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n7axw wrote:
dan92677 wrote:Sigh....

Will the human race ever outgrow politics?????


Nope. Politics is simply the art of working with people whose interests and goals are varied and may well not be the same as your own. Politics is as old as humanity and will be around as long as humanity itself.

Don



Well, I'm an optimist, I guess...
Dan
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Re: Speed of Technological Development
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:05 pm

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evilauthor wrote:
n7axw wrote:Ah, yes...Choose the best stock...and then put Langhorne in charge. What's wrong with this picture? :?

Don


It's called politics. Can't escape the pernicious thing, even in the face of Armageddon.



Yes, politics! The oldest profession. What is in it for me? If I can't have it no one will. I'll do or say anything for enough money. And... it is not what you know... it's who you know.

Just my 2¢

Charlie
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Speed of Technological Development
Post by JeffEngel   » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:18 pm

JeffEngel
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C. O. Thompson wrote:
evilauthor wrote:It's called politics. Can't escape the pernicious thing, even in the face of Armageddon.



Yes, politics! The oldest profession. What is in it for me? If I can't have it no one will. I'll do or say anything for enough money. And... it is not what you know... it's who you know.

Just my 2¢

Charlie

I rather like politics. The alternatives I've seen are killing and threatening people til you get your way, or managing to be a hermit in isolation from the rest of humanity.
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