HFQ Official Snippet #8

The problem I see with a lot of this is that the Empire is already straining every muscle to keep up with the war's current demands. There has also been a decision made to reserve a minimum of 10% of industrial capacity for expansion.

But on the other hand, you don't want galleons filled with weapons winding up in Desnair. So something has to give. We already know that industrial expansion has been slowed by the ironclads currently under production due to a shortage of steam engines that were diverted to the ironclads...

My thought is to divert enough artillery to arm more hulls, particularly the prizes taken in Ithyria and the Markovian sea, maybe even using those ships to transport military supplies. And, have all of those commerce raiders been snarfed up by the navy now that nobody has commerce to raid? That could be a big help.

Another thing that that could make a big difference would be bringing a couple more naval officers into the inner circle. My candidates would be Shain and Yairley. I've long thought that bringing in military officers in critical positions has been neglected and coul make a real difference, particularly for the navy.

Don

n7axw wrote:
Another thing that that could make a big difference would be bringing a couple more naval officers into the inner circle. My candidates would be Shain and Yairley. I've long thought that bringing in military officers in critical positions has been neglected and coul make a real difference, particularly for the navy.

While I don't disagree about the utility of bringing some naval officers into the inner circle, I'm always a bit nervous when someone - either in the forums or in the actual books - recommends bringing someone into the inner circle strictly because of their utility. It seems to me that the potential inductee's spiritual flexibility is at least as important as their utility. Also, it seems to me that the inner circle should be kept as small as possible, simply because of the potentially catastrophic consequences should an inductee fall into the hands of Temple Loyalists or the Inquisition. And if someone is told the truth and doesn't seem to be taking it well, Merlin would have to kill them to keep the secret. So trying to bring in everyone who could be potentially useful would at best force the protagonists to kill some of Charis's best and brightest, and at worst would result in the premature revelation of the real truth, with disastrous consequences.

And even if there aren't any problems, bringing people into the inner circle can cause problems of its own. Most of these stem from the fact that, though they have access to all sorts of intelligence, the inner circle usually can't use that information lest they reveal that there's something odd going on. So just bringing in an admiral here and there might not do any good. For instance, how would being a member of the inner circle have helped Gwylym Manthyr in his final battle? As far as I can see, it wouldn't have. This is a similar situation, I think. Say the admiral commanding the force fighting Desnairian raiders had access to SNARCs and knew exactly where each enemy ship was. How could he communicate that to his men? "Seijin Merlin's spys" might work if he was attacking them when they were in port, but at sea there's really no way to use satellite reconnaissance without revealing that something unusual is happening.

Which is what the Mighty Wizard Weber has said about bringing various individuals into the Inner Circle.

As for the problem "how to use the special knowledge" has been mentioned before especially when the hypothetic Inner Circle Admiral would have to disobey orders to met a threat.

InvisibleBison wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Another thing that that could make a big difference would be bringing a couple more naval officers into the inner circle. My candidates would be Shain and Yairley. I've long thought that bringing in military officers in critical positions has been neglected and coul make a real difference, particularly for the navy.

While I don't disagree about the utility of bringing some naval officers into the inner circle, I'm always a bit nervous when someone - either in the forums or in the actual books - recommends bringing someone into the inner circle strictly because of their utility. It seems to me that the potential inductee's spiritual flexibility is at least as important as their utility. Also, it seems to me that the inner circle should be kept as small as possible, simply because of the potentially catastrophic consequences should an inductee fall into the hands of Temple Loyalists or the Inquisition. And if someone is told the truth and doesn't seem to be taking it well, Merlin would have to kill them to keep the secret. So trying to bring in everyone who could be potentially useful would at best force the protagonists to kill some of Charis's best and brightest, and at worst would result in the premature revelation of the real truth, with disastrous consequences.

And even if there aren't any problems, bringing people into the inner circle can cause problems of its own. Most of these stem from the fact that, though they have access to all sorts of intelligence, the inner circle usually can't use that information lest they reveal that there's something odd going on. So just bringing in an admiral here and there might not do any good. For instance, how would being a member of the inner circle have helped Gwylym Manthyr in his final battle? As far as I can see, it wouldn't have. This is a similar situation, I think. Say the admiral commanding the force fighting Desnairian raiders had access to SNARCs and knew exactly where each enemy ship was. How could he communicate that to his men? "Seijin Merlin's spys" might work if he was attacking them when they were in port, but at sea there's really no way to use satellite reconnaissance without revealing that something unusual is happening.

InvisibleBison wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Another thing that that could make a big difference would be bringing a couple more naval officers into the inner circle. My candidates would be Shain and Yairley. I've long thought that bringing in military officers in critical positions has been neglected and coul make a real difference, particularly for the navy.

While I don't disagree about the utility of bringing some naval officers into the inner circle, I'm always a bit nervous when someone - either in the forums or in the actual books - recommends bringing someone into the inner circle strictly because of their utility. It seems to me that the potential inductee's spiritual flexibility is at least as important as their utility. Also, it seems to me that the inner circle should be kept as small as possible, simply because of the potentially catastrophic consequences should an inductee fall into the hands of Temple Loyalists or the Inquisition. And if someone is told the truth and doesn't seem to be taking it well, Merlin would have to kill them to keep the secret. So trying to bring in everyone who could be potentially useful would at best force the protagonists to kill some of Charis's best and brightest, and at worst would result in the premature revelation of the real truth, with disastrous consequences.

And even if there aren't any problems, bringing people into the inner circle can cause problems of its own. Most of these stem from the fact that, though they have access to all sorts of intelligence, the inner circle usually can't use that information lest they reveal that there's something odd going on. So just bringing in an admiral here and there might not do any good. For instance, how would being a member of the inner circle have helped Gwylym Manthyr in his final battle? As far as I can see, it wouldn't have. This is a similar situation, I think. Say the admiral commanding the force fighting Desnairian raiders had access to SNARCs and knew exactly where each enemy ship was. How could he communicate that to his men? "Seijin Merlin's spys" might work if he was attacking them when they were in port, but at sea there's really no way to use satellite reconnaissance without revealing that something unusual is happening.

Most everybody has been brought into the inner circle because someone found it useful in one way or the other so that particular objection really is not very cogent.

But your other point about spiritual and intellectual flexibility is both important and compelling. I feel pretty comfortable about recommending Sir Dunkyn, but we, the readers know very little about Admiral Shain. But he would be in a good position to make use of the info if he could be safely let into the circle. I think the question should be asked.

As for Admiral Manthyr, it could have made a lot of difference. He would have had enough advance warning to make better provision for coping with the storm. In addition to that had he known that Thirsk was at sea, he could have been in a better position to begin concentrating his fleet or retreating toward Claw Is more quickly. Or being able to track Thirsk, he would have had more options for maneuvering. The point is all sorts of options would have opened up.

As for coping with the Desnairians, if Shain had access to the snarcs, he could react more quicky to the shipyards where the privateers are being built which is not a minor consideration.

Don

Are you sure. I seem to recall Merlin making one of those floating chinese lanterns (candle and paper balloon) thing at some point. I cant remember if that spawned anything.

With regards to flight proscreptions I believe nothing specific has yet been stated.

Seems like a good excuess to reread the serries!

lyonheart wrote:Hi Packhunter,

I believe we have textev that all aerial vehicles are forbidden mortals until the CoGA repeals its ban.

L

packhunter wrote:Towed Hot air observation ballons on convoys might help with avoiding contact with raiders.

And would lay the ground work for an Airship fleet....

I really want to see an Airship fleet. I always felt Corisande would be the perfect pioneers for such a project.

Peter2 wrote:

I believe we have textev that all aerial vehicles are forbidden mortals until the CoGA repeals its ban.

L
]



Hi, Lyonheart.

Well, this isn't the ban that would be really smart for Langhorne & Co. It's too hard to mantain: the hot air gallons is pretty easly to build. And if some ban could be broken lightly and without consequenses... It would be smart thing to not impose that ban at all.

And after all, we could always say that the airships didn't fly. They gloat; they are simply the good, godly old-fashioned ships, that build to gloat not in water by also in air

Additionally, having that balloon floating above the convoy would give the raiders a pretty good idea of where it was.

Check out the 1632 serries by eric flint, specifically commander cantrell in the west indies. Of which Mr. Weber was a part of and has likely been influenced by(serries not that specific book). They made use of observation ballons in a very logical manner. A grey ballon dosnt stand out. Plus being up high you can see them before they see you powerfull binoculars also help. Which then gives you the time to avoid them before they can even know your there. Besides who even looks up.

n7axw wrote:
Most everybody has been brought into the inner circle because someone found it useful in one way or the other so that particular objection really is not very cogent.

Yes, people are brought into the inner circle because it would be useful, but with very few exceptions, all inductees had been extensively evaluated for spiritual flexibility and been approved on that basis. I don't object to purely pragmatic reasons for suggesting someone as an inner circle member; I just want to make sure that no one forgets about the importance of the potential inductee's ability to accept the truth about the Archangels.

n7axw wrote:
As for Admiral Manthyr, it could have made a lot of difference. He would have had enough advance warning to make better provision for coping with the storm. In addition to that had he known that Thirsk was at sea, he could have been in a better position to begin concentrating his fleet or retreating toward Claw Is more quickly. Or being able to track Thirsk, he would have had more options for maneuvering. The point is all sorts of options would have opened up.

You're right. I was thinking more about his options once the storm had ravaged his fleet; having access to SNARCs might have enabled him to avoid that situation.

n7axw wrote:
As for coping with the Desnairians, if Shain had access to the snarcs, he could react more quicky to the shipyards where the privateers are being built which is not a minor consideration.

He could, I suppose, but how would he present this information to his men? He'd likely have to present it as yet another arm of the omnipresent seijin spy network. However, there's no reason to bring him into the inner circle to give him that information, and in fact in LaMA he does have a list of shipyards from these spies (September 896, chapter 8). So his ability to target the privateer shipyards wouldn't increase significantly.

Thirsk seems to be thinking about attacking despite the Rottweilers. He points out that they are only 2 of them and that they still have rigging, which would be vulnerable. Based on this, he is calculating that if his fleet has a big enough numeric advantage then the 2 Rottweilers might not be enough to compensate.

Thirsk's assumptions so far are valid. But I think what he doesn't know might come back to bite him. He is basing his calculations on the assumption that the Rottweilers are carrying the same standard 30 pound cannon found on other ICN galleons. But they don't. According to LAMA, they are carrying 6 inch rifled angle-guns. And these guns have elongated shells which are going to be much more powerful than a standard, round shell. So I think that the 2 Rottweiler class ships might have an even greater impact on a battle than what Thirsk is anticipating.

InvisibleBison wrote:[How could he communicate that to his men? "Seijin Merlin's spys" might work if he was attacking them when they were in port, but at sea there's really no way to use satellite reconnaissance without revealing that something unusual is happening.

Cayleb did fine in OAR just by claiming it was intuition.

I agree there's a limit... OTOH, I think at this point it's less important. Anything that isn't outright blatant is going to be ignored because the Charisians can't change sides at this point.

(Honestly, I think they should reveal the truth quite soon, probably as soon as the current war is over. They'll need all the time they can get before the archangels' return - which isn't far off at all.)

bunyipbelle wrote:mnyk Staynairs warships were now tied down in commerce protection and convey duties" Desnair is doing to Charis's shipping what Charis has been has been doing to everyone else's shipping.

Militarily, I think it's a little different. What Desnair seems to be doing is carrying out a littoral sea denial strategy... using coastal waters and denying others the unthreatened use of those waters, all while not, in fact, controlling any of it. It's a classic asymmetric warfare technique.

Charis' privateering was part of a global sea control strategy.. they were securing and demonstrating control by destroying other people's logistics.