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(SPOILERS) New Weapons

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: New Weapons
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:41 am

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SciFi90 wrote:Of greater use would be a machine gun, either water-cooled (like a .30 caliber) or air-cooled (like a .50 Caliber). Ammunition and linkage problems would have to be solved.


Better would be an assault rifle with select fire -- an AK or BAR derivative in a battle rifle chambering (the same ammo as the bolt-action rifles being issued now.)

Heavy machine guns like you propose are defensive, crew-served artillery. What the ICN needs is a light, offensive, weapon in wide circulation, that doesn't tie up an entire squad for each weapon.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: New Weapons
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:30 am

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RogueWarrior wrote:It is time for Hovercraft to enter Lake Pei in winter with platoons of mortars for a surprise attack on the Temple. :twisted:


Too much of a tech jump RogueWarrior, but a 50% model of the Graf Zeppelin would serve as both a test bed and bomber for limited engagements that might get the war ended.

If it were to work, it would be very important to knock out rocket production before the concept of anti-aircraft weapon could be refined but... in WWI it took fighter airplanes to knock them down as they flew above effective range of ground fire.

Even with the Hindenburg, airships were the safest ratio of service miles/passengers carried to loss, (not counting lost to enemy action) and OWL would have the best design and construction information including the US Navy data on mooring towers and hanger door design.

Food for thought is fat free ;)
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: New Weapons
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:39 am

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pokermind wrote:
C. O. Thompson wrote:OK... the demand to surrendered Cltnthan, Rayno and top staff would be in the pamphlets/leaflets along with a basic "do at home" experiment that explains how an airship operates; but :lol: yes, I saw the parallel to Oz when I submitted part of the idea. I think you have to admit that such a demonstration of superior capacities along with invitations to Rainbow Waters to negotiate an alliance with Charis and an invitation to avoid destruction of the entire city of Zion... which I don't think that Cayleb and/or Stohnar would approve anyway. Taking the Temples rocket production off the table would produce a big enough bang that it might be heard across the lake/bay and wold also demonstrate concern for the factory workers.

So you hardware historians...
How many steps in development from the Trapdoor to a version of the Browning .50-caliber M2 machine gun? How about a version of a Gatling gun. My recall is that the Trapdoor version of the bolt action rifle is more like a WWI weapon and the breach loading rifles were Civil War. I know that Winchester had leaver action repeating rifles between then but Safehold development seems to bypass that approach.

If air ships were introduced (and hot air recon platforms were on hand in the Civil War) they would need armaments that scare the cr*p out of the AOG and Mighty Host but must avoid the open flame of the rockets

I don't know anything... I only ask questions :?


On our world the Gatling gun was introduced before the trap-Door, the trap door Springfield was a conversion of the Civil War Springfield rifled musket into a breach loading metallic cartridge firearm.

With OWL's help they are bypassing steps the Gatling Gun is much heavier than a Ma Duse, the Gatling was often mounted on a cannon like carriage. It used more material than a Browning MG, in short better to go to the Browning direct probably the same cartridge as the M-96 to save the logistic headaches of another type of ammunition.

Poker


Thanks Poker...

That is about what I thought. So a .50-caliber, belt fed machine gun is a logical next step from the trapdoor and even if they only had 50 or so available for the spring offensive, the bullets could be loaded into the belts at the front by volunteers or men with leg wounds while they recover?
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by unlucky caz   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:12 pm

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They are already past the trap door rifles, the trap doors are a conversion kit for existing rifles. The new ones they are manufacturing are bolt action. Wouldn't they use the same cartridge they have in the bolt action rifle for a MG? That would simplify ammo for the time being and not require new ammo priduction and specific supply line for just the MG's they'd have.

As much fun as it might be to read about a tool maker looking at how the ammo is being loaded and primed. And thinking to them self's how working that action backwards might make a rapid fire weapon. I agree we are more likely to see some type of browning style MG first.

Think they will have Marines jumping off the cliffs around kings harbor, with gliders and such to test out ideas?
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by evilauthor   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:23 pm

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I seriously doubt Charis is going to develop dedicated machine guns for a while now. Everyone who isn't in the Inner Circle is still thinking in terms of aimed fire for infantryman. That means the next logical step is semi-automatic weapons that automatically chamber a new round every time one is fired but only fires one bullet per trigger pull. Fully automatic fire in that view would be a waste of ammo.

Besides which, with a semi-auto weapon, you can approximate full auto just by pulling the trigger many times really, really fast. Edit: Until situations where soldiers need to do this become relatively common, no one is going to think putting a full auto function on a rifle is going to be worthwhile.

As for killing infantry en masse, that's what grenades, mortars, and artillery is for. I'd expect to see Charis develop a semi-auto grenade launcher before I see a machine gun of any kind.
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by n7axw   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:07 pm

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evilauthor wrote:I seriously doubt Charis is going to develop dedicated machine guns for a while now. Everyone who isn't in the Inner Circle is still thinking in terms of aimed fire for infantryman. That means the next logical step is semi-automatic weapons that automatically chamber a new round every time one is fired but only fires one bullet per trigger pull. Fully automatic fire in that view would be a waste of ammo.

Besides which, with a semi-auto weapon, you can approximate full auto just by pulling the trigger many times really, really fast. Edit: Until situations where soldiers need to do this become relatively common, no one is going to think putting a full auto function on a rifle is going to be worthwhile.

As for killing infantry en masse, that's what grenades, mortars, and artillery is for. I'd expect to see Charis develop a semi-auto grenade launcher before I see a machine gun of any kind.


I doubt that we will get to semi-automatics or machine guns before the end of the current war sinse the M96s are superior to the St. Klymans and the current challenge is to produce enough breech loading fifles to get the allied armies rearmed with breech loaders.

My own thought is to wonder if perhaps as a stop gap measure, the allies might not make use of Zhwaigair's design to convert over their own muzzle loaders which at the moment are concentrated with the RSA. That could be a fix until the better stuff is more widely available.

Don
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by Henry Brown   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:10 pm

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n7axw wrote:I doubt that we will get to semi-automatics or machine guns before the end of the current war sinse the M96s are superior to the St. Klymans and the current challenge is to produce enough breech loading fifles to get the allied armies rearmed with breech loaders.

My own thought is to wonder if perhaps as a stop gap measure, the allies might not make use of Zhwaigair's design to convert over their own muzzle loaders which at the moment are concentrated with the RSA. That could be a fix until the better stuff is more widely available.

Don


I've wondered about converting all the muzzle loaders the RSA is using to the St. Klyman design myself. It seems like a quick way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of the RSA. Assuming the conversions can be done without cutting into the production of new rifles...
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:58 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:
n7axw wrote:I doubt that we will get to semi-automatics or machine guns before the end of the current war sinse the M96s are superior to the St. Klymans and the current challenge is to produce enough breech loading fifles to get the allied armies rearmed with breech loaders.

My own thought is to wonder if perhaps as a stop gap measure, the allies might not make use of Zhwaigair's design to convert over their own muzzle loaders which at the moment are concentrated with the RSA. That could be a fix until the better stuff is more widely available.

Don


I've wondered about converting all the muzzle loaders the RSA is using to the St. Klyman design myself. It seems like a quick way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of the RSA. Assuming the conversions can be done without cutting into the production of new rifles...


They probably could do it - if they officially knew how. I don't think we have seen any textev that anyone but the inner circle knows what the AoG is doing to convert their rifles to breechloading.
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by BobG   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:02 pm

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Henry Brown wrote:I've wondered about converting all the muzzle loaders the RSA is using to the St. Klyman design myself. It seems like a quick way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of the RSA. Assuming the conversions can be done without cutting into the production of new rifles...

One alternative would be for Howsmen's people to make the chamber and trigger assembly with a thread on the end, so that the current barrel could be cut slightly shorter, and the end threaded to screw not the chamber.

As for the general conversation, I would advocate the Browning BAR or maybe the Browning M2. .50 caliber air cooled machine gun as the next weapon.

I would also suggest hot air balloons, which would permit observation out to at least katusha range during the day. But I have a feeling that beyond mobility, they will have to dig in as they did in WW I, burrowed deep enough to survive barrage attacks.

-- Bob G
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Re: (SPOILERS) New Weapons
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:06 pm

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They probably could do it - if they officially knew how. I don't think we have seen any textev that anyone but the inner circle knows what the AoG is doing to convert their rifles to breechloading.

St. Kylmahn's rifles had been in positions overrun by the Allies in HFQ, right? That'd mean captured ones are almost certainly in hand for observation.

In addition, the highest levels of Siddarmark's government at least know that Aivah Pahrsahn has a fiendishly effective spy organization in the Temple Lands (at least), and the St. Kylmahn's are in too wide a distribution to be all that secret, so enough details to go on can plausibly come through that avenue.
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