Merlin can't assassinate Clyntahn.

Easternmystic wrote:

n7axw wrote:Toward the end of HFQ, he has a confrontation with Maigwair in the square of martyrs, so he does make it out once in a while.

In addition, he does make it over to that location where the punishment is applied which can't be on Temple premises since Merlin was able to get a snarc in to watch what happened to Manthyr.

I've wondered about a sniper on a rooftop myself. Merlin wouldn't even have to do it. You could use a squad of scout snipers....although having Mab involved would up the ante all around, wouldn't it?

Don

Another option would be to use some of the COGA's new rockets and take out Clyntahn along with everyone else that was participating in the latest inquistion execution. I seem to recall that the victims were the last participants to arrrive. So a rocket attack before thy were brought out might actually save them.

I don't think so. Merlin has an aversion to killing civilians, which I am sure will extend to those who are enthusiastically enjoying Clyntahn's Auto-de-fe, even though he may feel that they truly deserve it for being there in the first place.

Gracious, some of us are a blood thirsty bunch...

Keith is right. Merlin won't be shedding any blood beyond what is neccessary... and then he'll regret it.

Don

n7axw wrote:Gracious, some of us are a blood thirsty bunch...

Keith is right. Merlin won't be shedding any blood beyond what is neccessary... and then he'll regret it.

Don

Not always. Merlin showed some satisfaction killing the Bishop who tried to kill Sharley. Mab certain expressed satisfaction in killing those inquisitors on that barge. Those killings were not necessary, they were examples he went out of his way to showcase.

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:Gracious, some of us are a blood thirsty bunch...

Keith is right. Merlin won't be shedding any blood beyond what is neccessary... and then he'll regret it.

Don

Not always. Merlin showed some satisfaction killing the Bishop who tried to kill Sharley. Mab certain expressed satisfaction in killing those inquisitors on that barge. Those killings were not necessary, they were examples he went out of his way to showcase.

Actually Peter, I have to disagree with you here. Some deaths are necessary and right. The Bishop and the inquisitors definitely needed killing, as do many more still to come.

Keith_w wrote:

Easternmystic wrote:
Another option would be to use some of the COGA's new rockets and take out Clyntahn along with everyone else that was participating in the latest inquistion execution. I seem to recall that the victims were the last participants to arrrive. So a rocket attack before thy were brought out might actually save them.

I don't think so. Merlin has an aversion to killing civilians, which I am sure will extend to those who are enthusiastically enjoying Clyntahn's Auto-de-fe, even though he may feel that they truly deserve it for being there in the first place.

Merlin is not the only actor on this particular stage. Maigwair and/or Ducharn could conceivable put this together. Their Tech wiazards are also capable of ding this particularly if either Maigwair or Duchairn get picked up by the inquisition and they are left in place. There are also factions within the inquisition that have reason to feel threatened by Cylntahn. Any one of those factions could decide to remove Clyntahn before he removes them. For that matter, Helmcleaver was quite willing to accept collateral damage when they blew up a church to remove a group of corrupt church officials.

There is also the fact that we don't know how large the stage area is for one of these public executions. Helmcleaver's activities is likely to result in increased security protocols that will keep the general populace of Zion even farther from anyone of importance than usual.

For that matter, you may be wrong about Merlin. By removing the top 2 or 3 layers of COGA beauracracy, he would effectively stop the current war in it's tracks. By the time the COga could recover, The majority of the nations in the COGA camp would hav abandoned the COGA.That will save millions of lives.

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:Gracious, some of us are a blood thirsty bunch...

Keith is right. Merlin won't be shedding any blood beyond what is neccessary... and then he'll regret it.

Don

Not always. Merlin showed some satisfaction killing the Bishop who tried to kill Sharley. Mab certain expressed satisfaction in killing those inquisitors on that barge. Those killings were not necessary, they were examples he went out of his way to showcase.

Merlin's killings have fallen into three categories. First is the administration of justice as in the case of that inquisitor who had been in on Manthyr's situation. Secondly is the defense of the vulnerable such as in Sharley's situation. Finally is his participation in the war which was the case in taking down those semaphore crews during Delthak's raid on the canal system.

I think that it would be right to say that he savors and takes satisfaction, sometimes fierce satisfaction, when these goals are successfully served. But I don't see him taking satisfaction in killing, per se. In fact to the contrary, he would rather do as little of it as possible. He certainly is not about to indulge in the sort of binge killing that the inquistion indulges in routinely. Nor is he insensitive to the death of innocents which so often comes about in war. As has been stated frequently, he wouldn't take out the Temple with a high powered bomb or missile because of the "collateral damage" in the city. Indeed, Mab's mission in killing the inquisitors in the camps is to slow down the death toll.

Finally, it is quite clear, especially from that scene with Nahrman at the end of MTAT, that the fact that he has found it necessary to kill so often has taken a huge toll on his spirit. Far from taking satisfaction from it, it depresses him and he feels guilty about it, being harder on himself than is really appropriate to the situation.

Don

I don't totally disagree with you, Don. I will only add that Merlin's killing of Bishop Halcomb(sp?) Was an exercise that gave him quite a bit of satisfaction. Merlin toyed with the man, made the Bishop suffer before killing him.

That suggests a satisfaction in punishing those that deserve it. That is not justice but vengeance. That he wants to seek vengeance makes him more human and less perfect. I simply wish to assert that Merlin finds a little enjoyment in killing those that deserve it.

n7axw wrote:Merlin's killings have fallen into three categories. First is the administration of justice as in the case of that inquisitor who had been in on Manthyr's situation. Secondly is the defense of the vulnerable such as in Sharley's situation. Finally is his participation in the war which was the case in taking down those semaphore crews during Delthak's raid on the canal system.

I think that it would be right to say that he savors and takes satisfaction, sometimes fierce satisfaction, when these goals are successfully served. But I don't see him taking satisfaction in killing, per se. In fact to the contrary, he would rather do as little of it as possible. He certainly is not about to indulge in the sort of binge killing that the inquistion indulges in routinely. Nor is he insensitive to the death of innocents which so often comes about in war. As has been stated frequently, he wouldn't take out the Temple with a high powered bomb or missile because of the "collateral damage" in the city. Indeed, Mab's mission in killing the inquisitors in the camps is to slow down the death toll.

Finally, it is quite clear, especially from that scene with Nahrman at the end of MTAT, that the fact that he has found it necessary to kill so often has taken a huge toll on his spirit. Far from taking satisfaction from it, it depresses him and he feels guilty about it, being harder on himself than is really appropriate to the situation.

Don

PeterZ wrote:I don't totally disagree with you, Don. I will only add that Merlin's killing of Bishop Halcomb(sp?) Was an exercise that gave him quite a bit of satisfaction. Merlin toyed with the man, made the Bishop suffer before killing him.

That suggests a satisfaction in punishing those that deserve it. That is not justice but vengeance. That he wants to seek vengeance makes him more human and less perfect. I simply wish to assert that Merlin finds a little enjoyment in killing those that deserve it.

n7axw wrote:Merlin's killings have fallen into three categories. First is the administration of justice as in the case of that inquisitor who had been in on Manthyr's situation. Secondly is the defense of the vulnerable such as in Sharley's situation. Finally is his participation in the war which was the case in taking down those semaphore crews during Delthak's raid on the canal system.

I think that it would be right to say that he savors and takes satisfaction, sometimes fierce satisfaction, when these goals are successfully served. But I don't see him taking satisfaction in killing, per se. In fact to the contrary, he would rather do as little of it as possible. He certainly is not about to indulge in the sort of binge killing that the inquistion indulges in routinely. Nor is he insensitive to the death of innocents which so often comes about in war. As has been stated frequently, he wouldn't take out the Temple with a high powered bomb or missile because of the "collateral damage" in the city. Indeed, Mab's mission in killing the inquisitors in the camps is to slow down the death toll.

Finally, it is quite clear, especially from that scene with Nahrman at the end of MTAT, that the fact that he has found it necessary to kill so often has taken a huge toll on his spirit. Far from taking satisfaction from it, it depresses him and he feels guilty about it, being harder on himself than is really appropriate to the situation.

Don

I would have put Halcom's killing in the justice category. But that being said, I wouldn't claim that he felt no satisfaction or personal vengeance from it. Nor am I claiming that Merlin is as pure as driven snow. That would scarcely be realistic. What I do claim is that Merlin consciously embraces an ethic of life and seeks to live by that. His conscience is violated when he fails to live up to that standard. That was the point of my previous post.

Don

His internal struggle between vengeance and decency is one of the reasons Merlin's character is so interesting.

thanatos wrote: And then there's the question whether or not Clyntahn could be assassinated without it looking like it was done with "Shan-wei's foul arts" - especially now that Rayno has finally concluded that the Fist of God has been assisted by "demons".

I still think Merlin and co. are missing a chance to disprove the Writ here. The Writ says that demonic intervention will be countered by angels, so if they openly use tech the only options are:

-it's angelic (and God is on Charis' side)
-it's demonic (and the Writ is wrong)
-it's neither (and the Writ is at the very least incomplete).