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Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!

So who'll be the one to off the Grand Inquisitor?

Duchairn and/or his conspiracy
17
22%
Magwair or Temple Guard
7
9%
Rayno
8
10%
Merlin/Mab
3
4%
Charisan Army or Navy
0
No votes
Nynian and/or Helm Cleaver
9
11%
Phandys
6
8%
court of judges via public trial
6
8%
his heart
11
14%
somebody else
12
15%
 
Total votes : 79

Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by McGuiness   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:19 am

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JustCurious wrote:All inquisitors are subject to summary execution if captured. I think the Charisian army or navy will capture and hang him. No need for a trial. It would only be a show. Remember what happened to St Just in the Honorverse.
With the Go3 actively plotting against each other, one, two or all three of them could end up dead in the next book.

Clyntahn is drawing up plans to eliminate Duchairn and Magwair. We know Duchairn is up to something. Phandys may not be the obedient temple guard Clyntahn thinks him to be - after all, he killed Howard Wylsynn rather than letting him be captured and put to the question. The sword fight was a great show, but I think it was intentional and preplanned if Clyntahn ordered the Wylsynn's arrest.

We may be surprised by a combination of Duchairn and Rayno, based on nothing but it being one of RFC's clever twists that none of us see coming.

Keep in mind that for anyone outside the temple to kill the fat fornicator, they have to actually have access to the temple, which rules out Merlin, Nimue, and anybody from the allied side until/unless they seize the temple. Helm Cleaver is unlikely for that very reason.

Why so many readers keep thinking that the allies are going to send armies marching across the Temple Lands to Zion is beyond me, when the ICN could send a fleet and tens of thousands of troops to Zion whenever it wants and capture the place quite easily, including the Temple. At that point Clyntahn either gets killed by Merlin, the headsman, or the noose after a very public trial, which is more Cayleb and Sharley's style. (Unfortunately Merline doesn't dare set foot inside the temple until they know what's in the basement!)

My bet is Duchairn/Phandys, with Magwair in second, since one or the other will realize that Clyntahn is about to turn on them. Since Phandys would be Duchairn's arresting officer, that probably wouldn't work out as planned... :twisted:

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:21 am

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CJK wrote:Would suggest that you add Clyntahn committing suicide, not really certain this is likely but feel that given how paranoid Clyntahn is plus the small fact that the most reliable people for Clyntahn are also the ones who will be for the chop if he does go down.

Or he could go COMPLETELY insane :D


CJK...

How would you know? This is like the difference between boiling water and a rolling boil!
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:22 am

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McGuiness wrote:
JustCurious wrote:All inquisitors are subject to summary execution if captured. I think the Charisian army or navy will capture and hang him. No need for a trial. It would only be a show. Remember what happened to St Just in the Honorverse.
With the Go3 actively plotting against each other, one, two or all three of them could end up dead in the next book.

Clyntahn is drawing up plans to eliminate Duchairn and Magwair. We know Duchairn is up to something. Phandys may not be the obedient temple guard Clyntahn thinks him to be - after all, he killed Howard Wylsynn rather than letting him be captured and put to the question. The sword fight was a great show, but I think it was intentional and preplanned if Clyntahn ordered the Wylsynn's arrest.
I have to worry that you're seeing patterns where all that exists is conflicting plans coming into collision, or Howard Wylsynn's working as intended. Is that all the Phanydys Phandom have - that Phandys killed a well-skilled, armed man who was determined and well prepared not to be taken alive? It's a very thin reed. Sometimes, things really are pretty much what they appear to be, and if RFC gets his kicks throwing us curveballs, well, if we're going to squint and see curves everywhere, pitching them straight achieves the same purpose.

We may be surprised by a combination of Duchairn and Rayno, based on nothing but it being one of RFC's clever twists that none of us see coming.
Well, Duchairn's career in recent years has been one long deal with the devil, so that'd only be a deal with a different one. And it'd be outside Clyntahn's expectations of either of them, so it's got that going for it. However, I can't see Duchairn trusting Rayno like that; it'd be far too likely to be a trap by Rayno and Clyntahn to get honest evidence to use against Duchairn.
Keep in mind that for anyone outside the temple to kill the fat fornicator, they have to actually have access to the temple, which rules out Merlin, Nimue, and anybody from the allied side until/unless they seize the temple. Helm Cleaver is unlikely for that very reason.
Helm Cleaver may be able to infiltrate the Temple in secret - it's not as though they're operating in Zion in uniform and under flags. Any non-PICA in the Inner Circle could be transported there to do it too, but Helm Cleaver operatives have far better covers and, for the most part, training for it than any of the non-PICA's in the Inner Circle.
Why so many readers keep thinking that the allies are going to send armies marching across the Temple Lands to Zion is beyond me, when the ICN could send a fleet and tens of thousands of troops to Zion whenever it wants and capture the place quite easily, including the Temple. At that point Clyntahn either gets killed by Merlin, the headsman, or the noose after a very public trial, which is more Cayleb and Sharley's style. (Unfortunately Merline doesn't dare set foot inside the temple until they know what's in the basement!)
Some people don't think the war will end - or can be allowed to end - short of Zion because that's what it will take to break the CoGA and/or confront the Thing in the Basement, and that the CoGA will be able and willing to keep putting Harhongese bodies between the Allies and them until then. As far as that goes, that would apply to invasions by any route: from the east across the Border States, from the south from the Gulf of Dohlar, or from the north by Hsing-Wu's Passage and Lake Pei.

The northern route isn't likely to be a complete surprise - staying out of sight along Hsing-Wu's passage with a large fleet and then entering Lake Pei with it is more fortune than any planner should count on. It would mean both a much smaller distance by land for them to shove Harchongese human shields into, and it'd mean moving them with only moderate notice from other fronts, so it's got that at least going for it. Not nothing, but less than a simple amphibious triumph march.

The problem with it is that they can't do it whenever they want. Hsing-Wu's Passage freezes over for much of the year, so anything they send that way has to be carefully timed and fend for itself over the extended winter months if it is there - thereby making even more demands of fortune for the operation. Something at the end of an overland stretch of occupied territory doesn't have that worry. That stretch would be a lot shorter south from the Gulf than east from Siddarmark, which is one reason I think that one ought to bear more attention than it has. It'd also make use of all the investment in the Gulf of Dohlar - more, perhaps, than the RDN itself demands.
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:33 am

C. O. Thompson
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Posts: 700
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McGuiness wrote:
JustCurious wrote:All inquisitors are subject to summary execution if captured. I think the Charisian army or navy will capture and hang him. No need for a trial. It would only be a show. Remember what happened to St Just in the Honorverse.
With the Go3 actively plotting against each other, one, two or all three of them could end up dead in the next book.

Clyntahn is drawing up plans to eliminate Duchairn and Magwair. We know Duchairn is up to something. Phandys may not be the obedient temple guard Clyntahn thinks him to be - after all, he killed Howard Wylsynn rather than letting him be captured and put to the question. The sword fight was a great show, but I think it was intentional and preplanned if Clyntahn ordered the Wylsynn's arrest.

We may be surprised by a combination of Duchairn and Rayno, based on nothing but it being one of RFC's clever twists that none of us see coming.

Keep in mind that for anyone outside the temple to kill the fat fornicator, they have to actually have access to the temple, which rules out Merlin, Nimue, and anybody from the allied side until/unless they seize the temple. Helm Cleaver is unlikely for that very reason.

Why so many readers keep thinking that the allies are going to send armies marching across the Temple Lands to Zion is beyond me, when the ICN could send a fleet and tens of thousands of troops to Zion whenever it wants and capture the place quite easily, including the Temple. At that point Clyntahn either gets killed by Merlin, the headsman, or the noose after a very public trial, which is more Cayleb and Sharley's style. (Unfortunately Merline doesn't dare set foot inside the temple until they know what's in the basement!)

My bet is Duchairn/Phandys, with Magwair in second, since one or the other will realize that Clyntahn is about to turn on them. Since Phandys would be Duchairn's arresting officer, that probably wouldn't work out as planned... :twisted:



McGuiness,

Actually,with Ahrlo Mahkbyth's inventory of Old Mykalym Grand Reserve and his connections with the Guard and the priesthood, Helm Cleaver does have a way into the Temple. Weather any one in Zion knows what is in the room under the Temple or even where there is a room under there is a question that has not been addressed. I seem to recall that the day that Howard and Sam Wylson were killed there was some suggestion that the Guard has some idea of it... :? I know that the treasurer has thoughts about the ability the inquisitor had to see and hear everything and the current occupants take the mysteries of the Archangels lights and power chairs for granted but that does not preclude a hidden room sealed off and forgotten.

Who knows ;)
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by Expert snuggler   » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:53 pm

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This won't happen and wouldn't work, but gunboat diplomacy is conceivable. Steam some armored ships with long-range guns up close and announce "shelling will continue until you surrender Clyntahn to us or we run out of ammo".

An inconclusive attack on Zion might just make the faithful angry and strengthen their will, but it might also sow doubts about the ability of the Church of Clyntahn to protect them.
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:16 pm

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Posts: 700
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Location: Thompson, CT USA

Expert snuggler wrote:This won't happen and wouldn't work, but gunboat diplomacy is conceivable. Steam some armored ships with long-range guns up close and announce "shelling will continue until you surrender Clyntahn to us or we run out of ammo".

An inconclusive attack on Zion might just make the faithful angry and strengthen their will, but it might also sow doubts about the ability of the Church of Clyntahn to protect them.


Shelling Zion is out of character for the Allies. Now if they say that Helm Cleaver will continue to kill the complacent and corrupt Vicars and Inquisitors till they hand Clynthan over???
That I can see. But to do that, they have to start putting broadsides up on the inside of the temple doors and on the Vicars and Inquisitors doors also and they cannot do that till the orbital platform is naturalized because they cannot risk having a servitor destroyed and in Clynthan's hands.

I recall that Rayno thinks that the lack of broadsides on the temple and in its precincts as evidence that the demons cannot touch them.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by SciFi90   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:18 am

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Posts: 38
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McGuiness wrote:
JustCurious wrote:All inquisitors are subject to summary execution if captured. I think the Charisian army or navy will capture and hang him. No need for a trial. It would only be a show. Remember what happened to St Just in the Honorverse.
With the Go3 actively plotting against each other, one, two or all three of them could end up dead in the next book.

Clyntahn is drawing up plans to eliminate Duchairn and Magwair. We know Duchairn is up to something. Phandys may not be the obedient temple guard Clyntahn thinks him to be - after all, he killed Howard Wylsynn rather than letting him be captured and put to the question. The sword fight was a great show, but I think it was intentional and preplanned if Clyntahn ordered the Wylsynn's arrest.

We may be surprised by a combination of Duchairn and Rayno, based on nothing but it being one of RFC's clever twists that none of us see coming.

Keep in mind that for anyone outside the temple to kill the fat fornicator, they have to actually have access to the temple, which rules out Merlin, Nimue, and anybody from the allied side until/unless they seize the temple. Helm Cleaver is unlikely for that very reason.

Why so many readers keep thinking that the allies are going to send armies marching across the Temple Lands to Zion is beyond me, when the ICN could send a fleet and tens of thousands of troops to Zion whenever it wants and capture the place quite easily, including the Temple. At that point Clyntahn either gets killed by Merlin, the headsman, or the noose after a very public trial, which is more Cayleb and Sharley's style. (Unfortunately Merline doesn't dare set foot inside the temple until they know what's in the basement!)

My bet is Duchairn/Phandys, with Magwair in second, since one or the other will realize that Clyntahn is about to turn on them. Since Phandys would be Duchairn's arresting officer, that probably wouldn't work out as planned... :twisted:

From the description of Clyntahn's temper, indulgences, eating, and lack of exercise, a heart attack is the more likely demise.
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by StealthSeeker   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:57 am

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Commander

Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:31 am

I assume that Clyntahn is still receiving his occasional lady of the night? Then one of Aivah's girls could get in there with a slow acting poison. Though I can't imagine that Aivah hadn't worked on trying to do that for years.... :(
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I think therefore I am.... I think
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by Expert snuggler   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:21 am

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If he is smart enough to run absolutely everything past his tasters then it would have to be something sophisticated.
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Re: Poll: who do you think will kill Clyntahn? (spoilers?)
Post by StealthSeeker   » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:56 am

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Posts: 240
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Expert snuggler wrote:If he is smart enough to run absolutely everything past his tasters then it would have to be something sophisticated.



That is why it must be a very slow acting poison, at least 8 hours before symptoms show up.
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I think therefore I am.... I think
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