Helm Cleaver (Contains Spoilers)

It is Flag In Exile. Listening to series on audio, and that chapter just played on the way home tonight. Honor hasn't even been able to track down the word movie, let alone find one.[/quote][/quote]

IIRC, her Uncle Jacques staged a movie festival in Harrington Steading so they must have been able to deal with that issue somehow.

Don[/quote]

Sounds familiar, but must be later in the series. If it was Jaques, much later. What I posted was current as of Flag in Exile.

Thank you, Grabthar's Hammer. I remembered those movies had been slated somewhere in the series but with so many books and only two brain cells to rub together, I couldn't work out where or by whom.

Guardiandashi wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Well, I'm no expect on swords or sword-making but I'm also heard that the katana wasn't that superior to other swords.

Mind you, like you, I'm not willing to have any swordman demonstrate how good their sword is on my body.

I am not an expert by any means but from what I remember the "real difference" between western swords and eastern ones such as the Katana was in the manufacturing techniques used to make them.

one thing I remember reading was how some of the swords were commonly made.

the Katana was made using annealing and "folding techniques" where your piece of steel was hammered out thin, then folded over and hammered thin again at least ~20 times.
additionally the curve on a Katana was a feature both of part of the process of making it, and an intended feature as a katana is more of a slashing weapon than a thrusting one, and the curve makes it less likely to "stick" in a target (similar to sabres and scimitars)

The folding is more like 200 times than 20. The blank is made of a U shaped high carbon steel with a softer low carbon in center. And the reason to do that is that the sword maker forge weld them (hammering) and do partial tempers on the edge each time. When folding again, this result in layers of hardened and not hardened steel on the edge and a soft back so that the sword is not brittle. This is only possible because of the way, they make the steel (tamahagane) but it is not a very efficient process. The recurve is due to the partial temperings.

at least one method used in "western" sword making I read about took a number of iron/steel bars, fused them at 1 end and while they were heated twisted them like a screw, before hammer wielding/shaping them into a sword.

additionally "westerners" used a lot more metal in armor so the weapons were designed around defeating that armor as well.

You are thinking about pseudo-damas (true damas steel recipe is lost, search woot steel). It is a similar process to the Japanese one and normally use cross folding not twisting. Same benefits in resistance but as the swords get a full tempering, they are both stronger but more brittle so need more thickness. The carbon contents of steel are similarly different but the internal structure don't need to be as fine (perlite less diffused) The very distinct pattern is revealed by acid.

Morden sword makers use twisting for more dramatic patterns but it is strictly decorative.

The difference between the 2 techniques is that the katana need a much better and costly steel, has very good cutting properties but is less resistant for parrying or use against metallic armor.

The damas will handle chocs much better but will keep its edge a lot less. This reflect the different fencing styles and how opponents are armored.

I'm wondering how in the world the SSK managed to get Helm Cleaver. It is pretty obvious that Seijin Kohdy had a falling out with the archangels before his death. Despite this, they returned his body to his family for burial according to the snippets. But I can't see them handing over his "magic" sword to the family along with the body, even if he had died on good terms with the CoG. And since it appears that at the time the powers that be were attempting to disband the SSK, I doubt they would have given them Helm Cleaver either.

Henry Brown wrote:I'm wondering how in the world the SSK managed to get Helm Cleaver. It is pretty obvious that Seijin Kohdy had a falling out with the archangels before his death. Despite this, they returned his body to his family for burial according to the snippets. But I can't see them handing over his "magic" sword to the family along with the body, even if he had died on good terms with the CoG. And since it appears that at the time the powers that be were attempting to disband the SSK, I doubt they would have given them Helm Cleaver either.

At the time Khody's body was returned, the sword probably was returned with it. It probably wouldn't have been regarded anything particularly extraordinary at that point since there would have been other seijins with other "magic swords" around.

OR

maybe it was a bureaucratic slip. Bureaucrats have been slipping since the beginning of time.

Don

Ramhawkfan wrote:It is Flag In Exile. Listening to series on audio, and that chapter just played on the way home tonight. Honor hasn't even been able to track down the word movie, let alone find one.

[/quote]

IIRC, her Uncle Jacques staged a movie festival in Harrington Steading so they must have been able to deal with that issue somehow.

Don[/quote]

Sounds familiar, but must be later in the series. If it was Jaques, much later. What I posted was current as of Flag in Exile.[/quote]


Movies are also mentioned in the short stories from the Highlands and Fanatic. IIRC Kevin and Ginny introduce Victor to them in FtH and he is an aficionado of them in Fanatic.

IIRC the movies mentioned are;
Casablanca
Sansho the Bailiff

n7axw wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:I'm wondering how in the world the SSK managed to get Helm Cleaver. It is pretty obvious that Seijin Kohdy had a falling out with the archangels before his death. Despite this, they returned his body to his family for burial according to the snippets. But I can't see them handing over his "magic" sword to the family along with the body, even if he had died on good terms with the CoG. And since it appears that at the time the powers that be were attempting to disband the SSK, I doubt they would have given them Helm Cleaver either.

At the time Khody's body was returned, the sword probably was returned with it. It probably wouldn't have been regarded anything particularly extraordinary at that point since there would have been other seijins with other "magic swords" around.

OR

maybe it was a bureaucratic slip. Bureaucrats have been slipping since the beginning of time.

Don

OR

Not being at War, Sejin Kohdy left it at home when he went to talk to Schueler. the SSK was formed after his death and his personal goods were secreted someplace safe.

Hummm...

Can't have a seijin running around without his sword...what would people think?

From what I got out of the info so far, my impression is that the War against the Fallen was still going on.

Do we have info that would correct that?

Don

n7axw wrote:Hummm...

Can't have a seijin running around without his sword...what would people think?

From what I got out of the info so far, my impression is that the War against the Fallen was still going on.

Do we have info that would correct that?

Don

The snippet says he started having his doubts towards the end of the War Against the Fallen. Aivah also said that he made a final trip to Zion and died there. The SSK does not know the manner of his death. So yeah, it sounds like the War had not yet concluded.

Henry Brown wrote:The snippet says he [Khody] started having his doubts towards the end of the War Against the Fallen. Aivah also said that he made a final trip to Zion and died there. The SSK does not know the manner of his death. So yeah, it sounds like the War had not yet concluded.

I don't think anything we know rules out it being Khody in the Key. And if the sejin's body has been miraculously
"preserved incorruptible", which was a common medieval miracle, perhaps the body they got back wasn't the body Khody went to Zion in. (or maybe it was; we don't know that there's any way you can tell it's a PICA without technical resources, and Khody definitely had super-powers based on the legends.)

Or, possibly, it's purely a question of unstable factions and sending everything back without explanation at the time, and then, much later, when the factions among the angels were much more stable for one reason or another (deaths, departures...), then there's a dominant faction that suspects some other angelic faction of being Up To Something with Khody and trying to get rid of the order.

Pretty sure we're not in a position to tell just yet.