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What is the republic's policy towards Tories?

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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by AClone   » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:42 pm

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lyonheart wrote:
But I enjoyed both of them, and the new information indicates the reconstituted 37th regiment is fighting in the Glacierheart -Hildermoss province areas (more the latter I think) if not more specifically the Green Cove Trace, not in Shiloh province, as I had previously supposed.


Umm...no, it doesn't.

I'll point out that of all of the various Iowa Volunteer Regiments in the U.S. Civil War, not once did they fight in Iowa.


1st Glacierheart Volunteers(iirc) likely refers to where the unit was formed--not where it's fighting.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by RobertG   » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:38 am

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AClone wrote:
lyonheart wrote:
But I enjoyed both of them, and the new information indicates the reconstituted 37th regiment is fighting in the Glacierheart -Hildermoss province areas (more the latter I think) if not more specifically the Green Cove Trace, not in Shiloh province, as I had previously supposed.


Umm...no, it doesn't.

I'll point out that of all of the various Iowa Volunteer Regiments in the U.S. Civil War, not once did they fight in Iowa.


1st Glacierheart Volunteers(iirc) likely refers to where the unit was formed--not where it's fighting.


One Thing I will point out is A-Clone is getting his wires crossed because the 37th and the 1st Glacierheart Volunteers are two different units so could be fighting in different places. The 37th is a Regular Army Units that was at the Gap during SoS and after until relieved by BGV and was then reformed in Sidder City. The 1st Glacierheart Volunteers IIRC is the unit Bryk Raimrehm helped form.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by GregD   » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:10 pm

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McGuiness wrote:
Thucydides wrote:Don't forget that the TL's will make up a very large portion of the population, and also that the vast majority of them simply did the prudent thing and made an accommodation with the invaders.

I suspect that it will be more effective to seek out and punish people who actively collaborated with the invading force (much like Dutch and French collaborators were treated post WWII), and tacitly accept that most of the population acted under compulsion from the invaders and also in accordance with their religious beliefs which are shared by virtually everyone on Safehold.

I agree that active collaborators - those who fought against Siddarmark or who denounced their neighbors as reformists and got them tortured and killed should be dealt with in a way that teaches everyone a lesson without necessarily executing them and turning all of the formerly AoG occupied territories into CoGA loyalist enclaves.


Fighting against Siddarmarkmight just get you a POW camp. Anyone who turned someone in to the Inquisition, and their entire families, should be executed.

The first is being on the wrong side. The second is actively being evil. Evil needs to be destroyed.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by kbus888   » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:26 am

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=2013-10-21=
Hi GregD

?? Would your rules apply also to those who panicked and reported a neighbor -- ANY neighbor -- to the inquisition in order to deflect attention from their own loved ones, hoping that the neighbor reported could convince the inquisition of his/her innocence ??

R
.
..//* *\\
(/(..^..)\)
.._/'*'\_
.(,,,)^(,,,)

Love is a condition in which
the happiness of another
is essential to your own. - R Heinlein
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by GregD   » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:35 am

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kbus888 wrote:=2013-10-21=
Hi GregD

?? Would your rules apply also to those who panicked and reported a neighbor -- ANY neighbor -- to the inquisition in order to deflect attention from their own loved ones, hoping that the neighbor reported could convince the inquisition of his/her innocence ??

R
.


Absolutely. You can't "prove your innocence" top the Inquisition, you can only "confess" and hope they'll knock you unconscious / kill you before they torture your body.

Shopping your neighbors to the Inquisition is at least as bad as being an Inquisitor, IMHO.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by gbabafan   » Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:16 pm

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My guess is that while the ICA would accept and honor enemy surrenders, they may not actively prevent Siddermarkian massacres if they hadn't already accepted a plea for quarter, and may even make themselves scarce after a battle to allow the siddermarkians to do their thing.

Real life history is instructive here, since so many plot points seem drawn from the military lessons of the Thirty Years War. In 1631, Imperial forces under the Count of Tilly slaughtered nearly the entire civilian population of the prosperous Protestant city of Magdeburg, apparently after the burghers of the city tried to surrender. Up until that point, the Imperials often killed Protestant POWs, turning many of them over to the real life Inquisition for torture (like the COGA armies, the Imperials had embedded Inquisitors), but outright civilian genocide was rare. In retaliation, several Protestant generals declared the Mercy of Magdeburg - the doctrine that Imperial POWs would not be offered the chance to surrender and would be summarily executed.

Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, the somewhat Caleb-like commander of the allied intervention (invasion) force in Germany and effectively supreme allied commander before France entered the war against the Imperials in 1635, did honor surrender pleas, but reportedly didn't do much to actively stop vengeful local Protestant commanders from carrying out the Mercy.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by McGuiness   » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:44 am

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The ICA will probably keep a fairly "hands off" policy regarding civilians, provided they don't rebel against Siddarmark. Should that happen, they're fair game in battle, and can be tried as enemy combatants, and depending on their crimes, either made POWs or summarily executed by the RSA.

I suspect there will be a great deal of retribution of neighbor against neighbor once the heavy heel of the Inquisition is removed. To an extent, I expect the ICA to ignore it. If it gets out of control, they'd be forced to act as an occupying force rather than liberators, not that the TLs will ever see them as such. Long term, that's a job for the RSA.

Eventually the TLs will learn that it's no longer open season on reformists, and that behaving as if it is will get you killed. Peace of a sort will slowly return, hopefully short of turning the rebel provinces into a deserts and calling that peace. The grudges are going to go on for generations, unless TLs are physically uprooted from their homes and moved somewhere else. (With the most kind and sincere of motives of course!) Think Grayson and Masada in the Honorverse, but don't leave the wackos to their own devices.

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by ColonialBoy   » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:39 pm

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AClone wrote:
lyonheart wrote:But I enjoyed both of them, and the new information indicates the reconstituted 37th regiment is fighting in the Glacierheart -Hildermoss province areas (more the latter I think) if not more specifically the Green Cove Trace, not in Shiloh province, as I had previously supposed.
Umm...no, it doesn't.

I'll point out that of all of the various Iowa Volunteer Regiments in the U.S. Civil War, not once did they fight in Iowa.

1st Glacierheart Volunteers(iirc) likely refers to where the unit was formed--not where it's fighting.
Umm ... Sorry, AClone, Lyonheart is more likely to be correct (especially if you consider where our esteemed author currently resides). During the "War between the States" (aka "The ACW", although official US Army histories label it "The War of the Rebellion" [see: U.S. Army counterinsurgency and contingency operations doctrine, 1860–1941 http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/070/70-66-1/CMH_Pub_70-66-1.pdf]), a Confederate General (R. E. Lee) commanded the Army of Northern Virginia (named so, as that was where it expected to engage in combat). Another Confederate General (J. E. Johnston) was commander of the Army of Tennessee, which held off a flanking attack by Union General James McPherson's Army of the Mississippi (I can guarantee it's soldiers didn't come from Mississippi :) ) which happened to be Union General W. T. Sherman's former command.

Elsewhere in the world (at about the same time period - 1870), during the "Franco-Prussian War", French Marshals Bazaine commanded the Army of Metz, MacMahon the Army of Strasbourg, and Canrobert the Army of Chalons. Facing them were the German First Army under General Stienmetz, Second Army under Crown Prince Charles [of Prussia], and Third Army under the Imperial Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm.

Curiously, before the end of the war, the French armies named for their operational areas became numbered Corp under the control of a MUCH larger Army of the Rhine and the German numbered Armies were subsumed into the op-area named Army of the Meuse (if you want to view an EXCELLENT website describing this war, see: http://francoprussianwar.com/war.htm) :) .

The world of military science was changing rapidly at this point, so just about ANY labelling method would be correct (especially in a world like Safehold where about three T-centuries of change were compressed into about three S-Years)! :shock:
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by runsforcelery   » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:02 pm

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ColonialBoy wrote:
lyonheart wrote:But I enjoyed both of them, and the new information indicates the reconstituted 37th regiment is fighting in the Glacierheart -Hildermoss province areas (more the latter I think) if not more specifically the Green Cove Trace, not in Shiloh province, as I had previously supposed.


<SNIPPED AClone's post for brevity>

Umm ... Sorry, AClone, Lyonheart is more likely to be correct (especially if you consider where our esteemed author currently resides). During the "War between the States" (aka "The ACW", although official US Army histories label it "The War of the Rebellion" [see: U.S. Army counterinsurgency and contingency operations doctrine, 1860–1941 http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/070/70-66-1/CMH_Pub_70-66-1.pdf]), a Confederate General (R. E. Lee) commanded the Army of Northern Virginia (named so, as that was where it expected to engage in combat). Another Confederate General (J. E. Johnston) was commander of the Army of Tennessee, which held off a flanking attack by Union General James McPherson's Army of the Mississippi (I can guarantee it's soldiers didn't come from Mississippi :) ) which happened to be Union General W. T. Sherman's former command.

Elsewhere in the world (at about the same time period - 1870), during the "Franco-Prussian War", French Marshals Bazaine commanded the Army of Metz, MacMahon the Army of Strasbourg, and Canrobert the Army of Chalons. Facing them were the German First Army under General Stienmetz, Second Army under Crown Prince Charles [of Prussia], and Third Army under the Imperial Crown Prince Friedrich Wilhelm.

Curiously, before the end of the war, the French armies named for their operational areas became numbered Corp under the control of a MUCH larger Army of the Rhine and the German numbered Armies were subsumed into the op-area named Army of the Meuse (if you want to view an EXCELLENT website describing this war, see: http://francoprussianwar.com/war.htm) :) .

The world of military science was changing rapidly at this point, so just about ANY labelling method would be correct (especially in a world like Safehold where about three T-centuries of change were compressed into about three S-Years)! :shock:


A very concisely argued presentation. Unfortunately, Lyonheart is wrong about where the 37th is going to be fighting. ;)


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: What is the republic's policy towards Tories?
Post by laz   » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:16 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:A very concisely argued presentation. Unfortunately, Lyonheart is wrong about where the 37th is going to be fighting. ;)


Just wondering but are you currently editing the book to shoot down Lyonheart's ideas?

;)
laz
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