Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests

HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by Olegreyowl   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:53 pm

Olegreyowl
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:45 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

It is possible that Tor/McMillan may have negotiated with Amazon to control some of their ebook prices. But Amazon controls most of their physical and ebook prices. The "Agency" model dictated that the publisher controlled the prices not Amazon, which is why they brought pressure on the DOJ.

The settlement was most definitely in Amazon's favor, freeing them to undercut prices to grab market share and drive out the competition (which was Apple's primary defense, that a judgement against Apple would allow Amazon to once again obtain it's defacto monopoly). Prior to the "Agency" model Amazon had a 90%+ market share of the ebook business. During the "Agency" model the share fell to 60%ish, hence the pressure by Amazon. Now it has not been a return to glory for them but it has resulted in a reasonable uptick in their share.

The DOJ asked book retailers to facilitate the distribution of the settlement through their customer base. As the manager of a B&N we were fully briefed on the case and it's implications.

However back to the main point, even assuming that Tor/McMillan has negotiated control the ebook price, Amazon controls the trade cloth price. That means Amazon made the conscious choice to bring the trade cloth price down to a few cents more than the ebook as a loss leader and that Tor/McMillan did not set out to muck with the prices.

And on a final note, checking invoices for previous Safehold books it looks like cost of goods on them is a smidge below $18 so you're getting a pretty good deal on the trade cloth at 15.70.
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by DennisLee   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:41 pm

DennisLee
Lieutenant (Junior Grade)

Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:49 am

Mark Time wrote:... I believe that one of the key outcomes was that e-books pricing could be controlled by the publishers. ...


Could the difference be that the Hard Cover is a physical object where, once Amazon has paid the wholesale price and purchased the item, ownership has transferred and they are free to list it for whatever they like?
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by SCC   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:07 pm

SCC
Commander

Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:04 am

Is there anywhere OTHER then Amazon to buy the eBook outside of the US? I haven't been too happy with the kindle reader program and would like better option
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by Keith_w   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:18 pm

Keith_w
Commodore

Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

SCC wrote:Is there anywhere OTHER then Amazon to buy the eBook outside of the US? I haven't been too happy with the kindle reader program and would like better option

I buy my books through Indigo-Chapters here in Canada. I don't like Amazon and I especially don't like Jeff Bezos, and didn't even before the article in Wired(?) about how Amazon treats people.
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by SCC   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:02 pm

SCC
Commander

Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:04 am

Keith_w wrote:I buy my books through Indigo-Chapters here in Canada. I don't like Amazon and I especially don't like Jeff Bezos, and didn't even before the article in Wired(?) about how Amazon treats people.

That's not what I have trouble with, I have trouble with how bad their reader is, at least on Windows, Mobireader (Which I use for David's older stuff) I have a limited selection of colors and the fonts are bad, the ones in Mobi are extra wide for increased readability
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by boballab   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:48 pm

boballab
Captain of the List

Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Ocean City MD

Olegreyowl wrote:It is possible that Tor/McMillan may have negotiated with Amazon to control some of their ebook prices. But Amazon controls most of their physical and ebook prices. The "Agency" model dictated that the publisher controlled the prices not Amazon, which is why they brought pressure on the DOJ.

The settlement was most definitely in Amazon's favor, freeing them to undercut prices to grab market share and drive out the competition (which was Apple's primary defense, that a judgement against Apple would allow Amazon to once again obtain it's defacto monopoly). Prior to the "Agency" model Amazon had a 90%+ market share of the ebook business. During the "Agency" model the share fell to 60%ish, hence the pressure by Amazon. Now it has not been a return to glory for them but it has resulted in a reasonable uptick in their share.

The DOJ asked book retailers to facilitate the distribution of the settlement through their customer base. As the manager of a B&N we were fully briefed on the case and it's implications.

However back to the main point, even assuming that Tor/McMillan has negotiated control the ebook price, Amazon controls the trade cloth price. That means Amazon made the conscious choice to bring the trade cloth price down to a few cents more than the ebook as a loss leader and that Tor/McMillan did not set out to muck with the prices.

And on a final note, checking invoices for previous Safehold books it looks like cost of goods on them is a smidge below $18 so you're getting a pretty good deal on the trade cloth at 15.70.


Tor (a subdivision of Macmillan) gets to set the price on Ebooks because Amazon caved on the Agency pricing model during contract negations:
Amazon and Macmillan CEO John Sargent confirmed this week that they had agreed to terms for both print and electronic books. The deal will allow Macmillan to set prices for e-books, an arrangement known as the "agency model," and appears similar to agreements Amazon reached in the past two months with Hachette Book Group and Simon & Schuster.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12 ... .html?_r=0

Now the reason Amazon did this was that they got tired of trying to stop the Big 5 publishers from committing financial suicide. Right now Indie publishing is growing bigger and bigger and the biggest name in Indie publishing is Amazon. So Amazon makes a ton of money off the low price Indie world and has less headaches than trying to save the idiots in New York.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/e-book-sale ... 1441307826
http://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news ... believe-it
............................................................................

"I'd like to think that someone in the Navy somewhere has at least the IQ of a gerbil!" Rear Admiral Rozsak on the officers in the SLN
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by boballab   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:52 pm

boballab
Captain of the List

Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Ocean City MD

SCC wrote:Is there anywhere OTHER then Amazon to buy the eBook outside of the US? I haven't been too happy with the kindle reader program and would like better option


You might try Kobo, they have the book and I believe they are Canadian based. I know Barnes and Noble does as well but I don't know if you can buy from them without a US credit card/address.
............................................................................

"I'd like to think that someone in the Navy somewhere has at least the IQ of a gerbil!" Rear Admiral Rozsak on the officers in the SLN
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by boballab   » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:55 pm

boballab
Captain of the List

Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Ocean City MD

SCC wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I buy my books through Indigo-Chapters here in Canada. I don't like Amazon and I especially don't like Jeff Bezos, and didn't even before the article in Wired(?) about how Amazon treats people.

That's not what I have trouble with, I have trouble with how bad their reader is, at least on Windows, Mobireader (Which I use for David's older stuff) I have a limited selection of colors and the fonts are bad, the ones in Mobi are extra wide for increased readability



Have you tried to convert the format with Calibre?
http://calibre-ebook.com/

Tor Ebooks do not have DRM on them so you don't need to jailbreak them.
............................................................................

"I'd like to think that someone in the Navy somewhere has at least the IQ of a gerbil!" Rear Admiral Rozsak on the officers in the SLN
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by Keith_w   » Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:43 am

Keith_w
Commodore

Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

SCC wrote:
Keith_w wrote:I buy my books through Indigo-Chapters here in Canada. I don't like Amazon and I especially don't like Jeff Bezos, and didn't even before the article in Wired(?) about how Amazon treats people.

That's not what I have trouble with, I have trouble with how bad their reader is, at least on Windows, Mobireader (Which I use for David's older stuff) I have a limited selection of colors and the fonts are bad, the ones in Mobi are extra wide for increased readability


Sorry, who's reader do you have trouble with? I use Kobo for most of my EBook reading, including .epub books from Baen and the ones I buy through Chapters - which are downloaded from Kobo. I have the Kobo reader on my Windows machines, my cell phone and an actual Kobo Touch, which I rarely use, cause why would I carry an additional piece of equipment if I don't have to?
But if you don't like Kobo, there are lots of other ereaders out there. Surely you can find one that you like?
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Top
Re: HFQ ebook Pricing - Unconsionable
Post by Mark Time   » Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:02 pm

Mark Time
Lieutenant (Junior Grade)

Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:17 am

boballab:

Thanks for the link to the WSJ article. The discussion on ebook pricing is pretty extensive in the comments to the article. I think that I had read the article but forgot about it. I suppose seeing the high ebook price for HFQ subconsciously reminded me of that whole discussion.

I wonder how long it will take the big 5 publishers to figure out that their pricing scheme doesn't work.
Top

Return to Safehold