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What is the path to electricity?

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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:29 pm

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For thousands of years, give or take, lightning strikes were seen as the disfavour of God (or Gods)

Until it was pointed out that the main places that got struck were churches.

Then again the COGA probably has some fluff about the churches protecting the people from Langhornes anger.

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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:41 pm

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For thousands of years, give or take, lightning strikes were seen as the disfavour of God (or Gods)

Until it was pointed out that the main places that got struck were churches.

Then again the COGA probably has some fluff about the churches protecting the people from Langhornes anger.

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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by SWM   » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:03 pm

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Annachie wrote:For thousands of years, give or take, lightning strikes were seen as the disfavour of God (or Gods)

Until it was pointed out that the main places that got struck were churches.

Then again the COGA probably has some fluff about the churches protecting the people from Langhornes anger.

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On Safehold, lightning is not seen as the disfavor of God, but a reminder of Langhorne's power. There is not necessarily disfavor involved.
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by CRC   » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:43 am

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Natural lightning generates a relatively narrow set of frequencies, with a relatively narrow pulse width.

And we have no clue as to what might trigger the OBS. Frequency, pulse width, repetition?

But we know that the OBS ignores the comms, supersonic aircraft and steam trains - but zapps SNARCs without going 'what the heck was that'.

To advance further up the tech ladder, you have to go via EM tech, or do you? There is always the "plasma" power conduit route! Whatever that is...

I really like the idea of steam generating pebble reactors. That would be way cool - and non-electric.
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by McTurbo   » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:29 am

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Expert snuggler wrote:Duckk's archive fu, in another thread, turned up
"David's words, emphasis mine.

And, third, the notion of lightning as sacred and not, under any circumstances, to be profaned by mortal hands provides the permanent remembrance of not just Langhorne's existence but of the consequences of Langhorne's wrath."

There's wide agreement here that the Safehold population, even in Charis, has an electricity taboo as part of their core beliefs and would turn against anyone trying to introduce it. Further, that an electric civilization has to wait until someone can "nullify" the Writ.

How is that even possible?

After the Reformation, after the Enlightenment, people of today's Earth will often die rather than violate a key article of faith. This is after our equivalent of The Reveal.

No religion I can think of has ever renounced its scriptures, and the Writ is provably correct, making it even harder.

The only path I can imagine working is gradual re-interpretation motivated by money. Even a fresh "revelation" from an apparent archangel visiting every church on the planet wouldn't work, not on people programmed from childhood, and that approach is opposite to Merlin's goals anyway. Ditto every archbishop on the planet hearing voices saying that the archangels's plan all along was to re-introduce electricity.

Perhaps the answer includes the Church of Charis "aiding" their, uh, brothers in religion by taking over funding of primary education. A lifetime later, there's a population who's been taught from childhood "it's not to be taken literally".

One way or another it has to happen. They're not going to fight the Gbaba successfully without electric power and computers. But how?


the problem i see with your argument is that you are associating your knowledge of lightning with electricity. Safehold has no such knowledge. To them lightning is a big flash of bright divine white light in the sky that burns things it touches.

while "WE" know that electricity and lightning are roughly the same stuff through experimentation and scientific learning.. safeholdians do not.

So that being said.. it is quite possible to have electricity as long as its not associated with lightning. you could call it langhorns will or spirits of the saijins for all it matters.. the question is getting it past the proscriptions..
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by Duckk   » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:07 pm

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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4821&p=116198

Lightning is something that is described in great detail in the Writ specifically so that they know not to mess with it.
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by McGuiness   » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:34 pm

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ericth wrote:I have to say it...
Doesnt electricity always use the Path of Least Resistance? :-)
I thought that was the path a flow of liquid like water would take...

Add a dam with a hydro-generator along the way to keep this post on topic. :lol:

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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:46 pm

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As witness the religious requirement to release electric eels when they're caught. If low voltage work were allowable the good guys would already be using it.
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by cralkhi   » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:38 am

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JeffEngel wrote:Well - its injunctions have, for the most part, tangible and accurate penalties for their violation, and its historical account is remarkably consistent with the available early historical documentation (the Testimonies). But where the Writ can't be disproven without the technology it denies Safehold, it certainly could be with it,


One thing terrestrial religions have had going for them is that they have had centuries of tradition that resists taking them literally enough to be vulnerable to falsification.



I don't think that applying scientific-method concepts of falsification is especially helpful in this case. In my understanding, religions tend to rise and fall based on how much they fill/appeal to people's spiritual needs/leanings/feelings/etc, and how much ordinary people identify with them.

The original Roman religion was very barren and impersonal, so it tended to be supplemented by all sorts of mystery cults, and eventually was completely replaced by Christianity.

In turn, I think there's a strong argument that the 18th century Enlightenment Deism and American rejection of established churches comes out of the religious wars of the 16th and 17th centuries where Christianity was co-opted to serve the ambitions to power of rulers.

And the Protestant Reformation was partly sparked by the belief that the Church had become out of touch with the people and a tool of power. Etc.

The way to overturn the Writ is to offer a more appealing alternative. Proof and logic are far less important.

For that matter, I think it's in just that sense that most theoretically literalist believers on Earth take their religion now: community first, practice second, dogma somewhere along after them.


I don't think that's particularly a "now" thing, I think that's how religion always is, simply because community and practice are the way religion is applied in everyday life and so people think about those aspects more often.
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Re: What is the path to electricity?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:40 pm

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cralkhi wrote:The way to overturn the Writ is to offer a more appealing alternative. Proof and logic are far less important.


Insightful. Perhaps the most important psychological weapon will be the library of religious texts in the Cave. Turn loose some faiths that have a proven record of spreading virally.

The resulting civil wars would be a horror bad enough to deter the good guys. Having new religions running around, which have a way of being fanatical, might seriously interfere with creating Safehold's Enlightenment.
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