And now for a particularly silly notion... TANKS!!!

Don, you know there won't be any political problems with the proscriptions and steam engines just as soon as the CoGA figures out how to make them from their captured documents!

Randomiser wrote:Don, you know there won't be any political problems with the proscriptions and steam engines just as soon as the CoGA figures out how to make them from their captured documents!

Oh, there will still be political problems. It was still the damned heretics that came up with the idea. Mother church is only countering with what is needed to enable her loyal sons to survive long enough for the forces of light to triumph over the forces of darkness.

Clyntahn has no problem at all talking out of both sides of his mouth... at the same time.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Randomiser wrote:Don, you know there won't be any political problems with the proscriptions and steam engines just as soon as the CoGA figures out how to make them from their captured documents!

Oh, there will still be political problems. It was still the damned heretics that came up with the idea. Mother church is only countering with what is needed to enable her loyal sons to survive long enough for the forces of light to triumph over the forces of darkness.

Clyntahn has no problem at all talking out of both sides of his mouth... at the same time.

Don

I disagree, Don.

But for the grace of Clyntahn, those proscribed devices shall remain tools of damnation. He shall maintain the proscription on their use. He will however, offer indulgences....er dispensations on their use. That way anyone using those useful but proscribed tools without the Inquisition's indulgence shall be damned with extreme prejudice.

I don't see Clyntahn regularizing anything that Charis "invents". By not regularizing those devices the CoGA maintains control over them. This has been the way Clyntahn has described the Inquisition's copying of Chairsian tech from the start. The Inquisition has sanctified the process in some meaningful way that they are usable by God's children. That and the straight up dispensation for using that tech.

I'd like to take a different perspective as to why I don't see them being used - at least yet...

Zion's mobility (both strategic and tactical) stinks. Charisian / Siddarmarkan mobility is far better. Personally, I don't think Charis wants to fight Zion's kind of battle - the "old way of fighting" where two armies line up facing each other and slug it out until one gives up. The Charisians rely on speed, mobility, and agility to "go where they ain't" in an attempt to bring overwhelming combat power against the enemy. No examples here because I don't want to get into spoiler territory.

All that being said, early generation tanks were simply not capable of supporting a war of speed and mobility. That made them quite useful in the static warfare of WWI where you knew where the enemy was, you knew he wasn't moving, and you knew that you only needed to apply the "shock value" of a tank to breach the front lines so your infantry could exploit the breach. Once you got beyond the initial breach, the tanks were not particularly useful.

This is simply not Charis' kind of war. IMHO Charis WANTS to be highly mobile and slow-speed, lumbering behemoths (whether dragon powered or steam powered) simply couldn't keep up. Per textev, the whole "corps concept" is intended to facilitate smaller, more mobile forces that can move, pin, and flank with ease.

While technically feasible, I don't think tanks (at this stage) are realistic. Of course if Charis can come up with some other innovative way to greatly improve the power-to-weight ratio with a small enough engine that doesn't violate the (already) stretched proscriptions, then all bets are off.

But it would be sweet so see something like a herd of WWII Shermans trekking across the field of battle into the face of the Harchongian masses though!

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

Good to see your post. Yeah, he is sanctfying the stuff, but for a specific purpose. You can bet that were he to win, he would try to stuff as much of that stuff as possible would be disappeared.

Probably along with whoever worked on them

n7axw wrote:

doug941 wrote:If something was needed fast, how about something based on the Hussite War Wagons. Dragon inside the wagon, timberclad with thin iron plate and infantry firing from inside.

This is an intriguing idea. I'm trying to visualize the thing. Would you build the thing around the dragon? It would seem to me that it would be a bit restrictive for the dragon to do it that way. Maybe a system whereby it could be mated with the dragon right before combat would be better...

Don

The biggest problem with this idea is that dragons are afraid of battle/gun - noise. That's the reason artillery is not dragon-drawn. So a battle waggon with dragons would be impossible unless the dragons inside are blind and deaf.

Starsaber wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi PeterZ,

Good to see your post. Yeah, he is sanctfying the stuff, but for a specific purpose. You can bet that were he to win, he would try to stuff as much of that stuff as possible would be disappeared.

Probably along with whoever worked on them

I don't believe this will happen should Clyntahn prevail. The question I ask is what will give Clyntahn more power? If he controls these devastating devices, he will keep them in his back pocket. I would agree that Clyntahn will crack down on anyone trying to innovate and develop other devices.

I do agree that those developing these devices and procedures will be watched very closely and may well disappear. The devices and the knowledge of how to make them will remain under Clyntahn's control.

As long as we send doug to talk to the dragon: 'here, just climb into this! don't worry, we've crafted some beautiful ear plugs for you, you won't notice a thing as long as you keep walking'

n7axw wrote:

doug941 wrote:If something was needed fast, how about something based on the Hussite War Wagons. Dragon inside the wagon, timberclad with thin iron plate and infantry firing from inside.

This is an intriguing idea. I'm trying to visualize the thing. Would you build the thing around the dragon? It would seem to me that it would be a bit restrictive for the dragon to do it that way. Maybe a system whereby it could be mated with the dragon right before combat would be better...

Don

It always struck me that steam was aslwasysx within the proscriptions - it is just a combination of water and wind - especially steam turbines.

Wouldn't electricity be within it if steam is? It can still be utilized via water it is just converting the water power into stored electric power. (Or just invent the engines that run soley on water, and then you should be good to go without releasing more toxins into the air)