Is Clyntahn an atheist?

fallsfromtrees wrote:

TN4994 wrote:Merlin is hesitant to use SNARCs in the Temple, and Clyntahn appears to be an Agoraphobe.
But the idea would be great applied to a Bishop in command of one of the Armies or Navies. Or the old Emperor of Harchong."

True enough, but Rayno comes out. Do it to him, and convince him his only path to salvation is to kill Clyntahn. Also Clyntahn comes out into the central plaza for his auto-de-fes and you might be able to get him then.

It's plausible that, if someone could question him frankly, Rayno would be an apatheist - genuinely indifferent to whether or not God exists. The Church exists. It gives Rayno power and position. After that, caring is a job for someone else. I'm sure he supposes God exists - the evidence is too compelling on Safehold, it's a marvelous con job, the best trick in human history. But if push came to shove, that's not an issue for Rayno in the here and now. If he did start hearing voices, and believed them, he'd likely be figuring out how to cut an effective deal with them for more, or more certain, power and position. Trying to create some moral regeneration in him would be a lost cause. There's nothing there to work with. It'd be like... trying to train up a gerbil to be Alicia DeVries.

God's totally relevant for Clyntahn. He's God's mortal agent, the firm hand with which He keeps a fallen world in line. Oh, there are perks, and Clyntahn likes them. It's a fallen world, after all. Everyone's got Shan-wei's talons in them. Clyntahn's only different in that he's doing God's work maintaining the fear that's the only lever God has left on fallen man. So he indulges in the little sins - rape, treachery, corruption, mass murder - while being the only bulwark against the serious sins of heresy and blasphemy. Committing the little sins is, perhaps, a job perk, the indulgence God's got to pay to get good work done in this world. And they are certainly excellent tools for God's agent doing His holy work when Shan-wei's get fear for nothing more than their mortal bodies.

Heck, arguably, Clyntahn's the most serious theist on the planet.

=2014/11/20=
Hi Guys

It's still too early to kill off Clyntahn.

After all, he's one of the more effective weapons in the Charisian Empire's arsenal !!

R
.

John Prigent wrote:Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John

So that would be an autotheist then?

mark wrote:

John Prigent wrote:Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John

So that would be an autotheist then?

Researched the psychiatric term for god complex.
None.
Wonder why?
Father Pyatyr (? spelling ?) mentions a Temple event coming soon.
"Clyntahn, you blockhead!!!"

kbus888 wrote:=2014/11/20=
Hi Guys

It's still too early to kill off Clyntahn.

After all, he's one of the more effective weapons in the Charisian Empire's arsenal !!

R
.

Yeah, but he is the energy behhind the jihad. If Clyntahn's suddenly gone, things get really unpredictable...

Don

At the end of LAMA, when Rayno tells Clytahn about the steam engine, his response is " Langhorne..."

It seems to denote not so much an unanticipated surprise, just one that he wasn't expecting quite yet.Ergo, he knew it was coming, just not at this particular moment.

Which makes me wonder: did he know about steam engines before, and if he did, Where did he get that information?

I've read that particular passage several times, and it bothers me. Much like the last report of an 'Actual Demon'.

Now, I know this one is in the Wizard's purview- after all, it's his story!-

But I've often wondered if Clyntahn isn't a PICA himself. It would fit with certain aspects about him, as far as his gluttony and lack of humanism( for lack of a better phrase) in his dealings with the outside. Indeed, in the fact that he never leaves he Temple surrounds.Do keep in mind that we have no evidence as to his origins. After all, if you are dealing with a download who has, through a succession of surrogate bodies, been able to "keep an eye on things" you'd expect that attitude, one of ' it's going according to plan, but we have this element messing it up, ok,so, get rid of it.'

There is no suggestion in textev against another computer system, in fact there is evidence for it as evidenced by the Temple's power sources.

Just Thinkin', y'all

Caliban wrote:At the end of LAMA, when Rayno tells Clytahn about the steam engine, his response is " Langhorne..."

It seems to denote not so much an unanticipated surprise, just one that he wasn't expecting quite yet.Ergo, he knew it was coming, just not at this particular moment.

Which makes me wonder: did he know about steam engines before, and if he did, Where did he get that information?

I've read that particular passage several times, and it bothers me. Much like the last report of an 'Actual Demon'.

Now, I know this one is in the Wizard's purview- after all, it's his story!-

But I've often wondered if Clyntahn isn't a PICA himself. It would fit with certain aspects about him, as far as his gluttony and lack of humanism( for lack of a better phrase) in his dealings with the outside. Indeed, in the fact that he never leaves he Temple surrounds.Do keep in mind that we have no evidence as to his origins. After all, if you are dealing with a download who has, through a succession of surrogate bodies, been able to "keep an eye on things" you'd expect that attitude, one of ' it's going according to plan, but we have this element messing it up, ok,so, get rid of it.'

There is no suggestion in textev against another computer system, in fact there is evidence for it as evidenced by the Temple's power sources.

Just Thinkin', y'all

Only real argument against it is that RFC has said the Merlin (and Nimue) are the only PICAs on the planet. In addition, a PICA programmed from the original Archangels would probably not strayed as far from its original programming as Clyntahn has strayed from the original intent of the Archangels.

fallsfromtrees wrote:

Caliban wrote:At the end of LAMA, when Rayno tells Clytahn about the steam engine, his response is " Langhorne..."

It seems to denote not so much an unanticipated surprise, just one that he wasn't expecting quite yet.Ergo, he knew it was coming, just not at this particular moment.

Which makes me wonder: did he know about steam engines before, and if he did, Where did he get that information?

I've read that particular passage several times, and it bothers me. Much like the last report of an 'Actual Demon'.

Now, I know this one is in the Wizard's purview- after all, it's his story!-

But I've often wondered if Clyntahn isn't a PICA himself. It would fit with certain aspects about him, as far as his gluttony and lack of humanism ( for lack of a better phrase) in his dealings with the outside. Indeed, in the fact that he never leaves the Temple surrounds.Do keep in mind that we have no evidence as to his origins. After all, if you are dealing with a download who has, through a succession of surrogate bodies, been able to "keep an eye on things" you'd expect that attitude, one of ' it's going according to plan, but we have this element messing it up, ok,so, get rid of it.'
then there's the textev that after a while, certain AI's or personality downloads go a bit buggy.

There is no suggestion in textev against another computer system, in fact there is evidence for it as evidenced by the Temple's power sources.

Just Thinkin', y'all

Only real argument against it is that RFC has said the Merlin (and Nimue) are the only PICAs on the planet. In addition, a PICA programmed from the original Archangels would probably not strayed as far from its original programming as Clyntahn has strayed from the original intent of the Archangels.

Hi,Fallsfromtrees.

Agree for the most part, except for one point: it ain't our story. And Given the way our wonderful Wizard likes to change things up, well, maybe not quite so far fetched.

And, to the very best of our knowledge, Merlin is the only PICA. Granted, Langhorne was bugnutz; that doesn't mean he was a complete technophobe, and we already know that a PICA's operation system can be hacked; Merlin himself is proof of that concept. Given the concept of an original personality that can override whatever original programming there might be,once again much like Merlin, mayhap it's not so far fetched.

Of course, I have certain reservations about Sejin Kohdy, too. Maybe Aivah's trip has to do with recovering him.... but that's another topic.

Caliban wrote:snip

Hi,Fallsfromtrees.

Agree for the most part, except for one point: it ain't our story. And Given the way our wonderful Wizard likes to change things up, well, maybe not quite so far fetched.

And, to the very best of our knowledge, Merlin is the only PICA. Granted, Langhorne was bugnutz; that doesn't mean he was a complete technophobe, and we already know that a PICA's operation system can be hacked; Merlin himself is proof of that concept. Given the concept of an original personality that can override whatever original programming there might be,once again much like Merlin, mayhap it's not so far fetched.

Of course, I have certain reservations about Sejin Kohdy, too. Maybe Aivah's trip has to do with recovering him.... but that's another topic.

I agree that it is David's story. However he rarely lies about something - if he wants to leave it ambiguous he will say something tum-te-tum-te-tum, and allow the speculators to go hog wild. Remember too, that Merlin's software was hacked by a master cyberneticist and even he screwed up to a certain extent. Would Langhorne have access to some even better? I dubious to say the least

I was wondering about his reaction to the steam engine too. He's displayed enough ignorance of (and surprise at) Charisian innovations and weapons that it seems unlikely he's a pre-Safeholdian in PICA form or knows the full truth. But certain Inquisition files and historical records may be available to him, due to his position, which no one else, or only a handful of others, have access to.

For instance the Church may know of the Terran Federation as part of an ancient heresy long since eradicated (or so they think). Clyntahn probably has no clue what an "engine" is or what it's actually used for; but he may recognize the term, along with others like radio, satellite, computer, or hyperdrive, as names of Proscribed devices. He doesn't know what they are. Only that people aren't supposed to have them.

When Rayno mentions the steam engine Clyntahn knows for sure (even if he can't explain how he knows without revealing the Inquisition's most closely-guarded secret files) that Charis is now doing what he's falsely accused them of doing in the past: dabbling in the unclean knowledge of Shan-Wei. Since he's made the accusation already there's little point in making it again. I'm sure that from his point of view though, the ante has just been upped.