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HFQ Official Snippet #8

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:11 am

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2541
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Location: Russia

Thank you, RFC!
"Between our own galleons and Lieutenant Zhwaigair’s screw-galleys — and that other project of his


Hm... Maybe... Palliser?
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:03 am

lyonheart
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Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hello RunsForCelery!

Thank you so much for number eight!

If September 2015 is the likely publishing date, that means we have another 40 or so such snippets to go?

So we'll still have plenty to read when we desperately order, because you'll leave us desperately hanging as in LaMA etc, etc.

Thanks again, and I too hope and pray all is well with Sharon and the children.

L


DrakBibliophile wrote:Agree!!!! :D :D


Chief-CWH wrote:Thank you RFC/MWW Hope you and you family are well. Thank you for the snippet
Last edited by lyonheart on Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:05 am

lyonheart
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Hi JMBM,

Thanks very much for the reminder.

Did it take you long to find it?

These are Delthak II's or 'improved river' class gunboats, not Eraystors.

The cruiser designs now seem much more needed than ever, so those of us who advocated might pat ourselves carefully on the back if they are built. :D

Should we link to the cruiser designs and re-debate which are best for killing the schooners? ;)

L


jmbm wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:...it might also serve as a support base for a squadron of the new City-class coastal ironclads. The Cities were too big to operate along the mainland canals the way the River and River II-class ships were intended to, and they were over four knots slower, but that extra displacement gave them marginally thicker armor and almost twice the endurance. More to the point — and despite Halcom Bahrns’ near miraculous feat of seamanship in the Tarot Channel — they were far better seaboats.


I am including herebelow the specs of the Delthak II-class ironclads that MWW posted last year. This Delthak II-class, is it the same as the River II or the City-class ?.

+++ quote +++

Delthak II – class broadside ironclad gunboat
Imperial Charisian Navy
Tellesberg, King’s Harbor, & Delthak DYs
All laid down 895 YoG
All launched & Commissioned: 896 YoG

Displacement:
Light: 1,181 tons
Standard: 1,465 tons
Normal: 1,529 tons
Full Load: 1,580 tons

Dimensions:
Length (waterline): 160’
Length (overall): 160’
Beam: 40’
Draft (normal): 10’
Draft (full): 10’3”

Armament:
22 x 6”/45 M895 BL guns 3 x 11 x 3 (115-pound AP shell; 200/gun)
Weight of broadside (13 guns): 1,495 pounds
Weight fore or aft (3 guns): 345 pounds

Armor:
Casemate: thickness= 3”; length = 146’; height = 14’; inclined 16˚
Freeboard fore & aft: thickness=3”; length = 14’; height = 4’
Casemate roof/decks: 1”
Conning tower: 6” (no slope)

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, double-expansion engines, direct drive, 2 shafts, 45 sdp (1,147 shp) = 14 knots (12.2 Old Earth knots)
Range 1,800nm at 9.5 knots (8.25 Old Earth knots)
Range 3,500 nm at 5.7 knots (5 Old Earth knots)
Bunker (normal): 59 tons
Bunker (max displacement): 115 tons

Complement: 158

Cost: CM 168,000

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Guns: 281 tons, 18.4 %
Armor: 286 tons, 18.7 %
Machinery: 166 tons, 10.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 448 tons, 29.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 348 tons, 22.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (penetrating hits to sink ship): 17 x 6”/45
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.81
Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 9.2 seconds
Steadiness as gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck , a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.836 / 0.838
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.6 knots (12.65 Old Earth knots)s
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
- Forecastle: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Aft deck: 50.00 %, 10.00 ft
- Quarter deck: 10.00 %, 4.00 ft
- Average: 8.80 ft
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.7 %
Waterplane Area: 5,823 Square feet
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 4.66
- Overall: 1.19
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

+++ unquote ++++
Last edited by lyonheart on Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by jmbm   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:21 am

jmbm
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:49 pm

lyonheart wrote:Hi JMBM,
Thanks very much for the reminder.
Did it take you long to find it?
L


Actually, I really liked last year's thread where RFC shared some Safehold ship designs (improved King Haarald, Hurricane, Comet, Delthak II...)

http://www.forums.davidweber.net/viewto ... 6&start=70

I'm not sure if there are 2 separate "brown water" ironclad classes being built, the River II and a bigger City-class. In the thread linked above RFC shows an improved version of the 4 converted ironclads that appeared in MTAT.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:37 am

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Hi SYED,

Quite correct, those cities were Geyra and Desnair the capital.

Actually there was textev in OAR and BSRA that Desnar had had a large navy earlier, and still had a much larger one than the republic.

I've posted before they were probably next on the target list after the Gulf of Jahras etc, since there was textev that they had shipyards and finished warships since the pair Yairley captured were from Geyra, known for its shipyards apparently.

Having the other members of the EoC build more schooners as escorts for the convoys is quite logical, given all the examples of naval competence we've seen in other nationalities.

We don't know how many galleons the ICN has in commission, it was doubled, up around 200 after the battle of the Markhovian Sea in AMF, when they captured so many NoG etc, but after many of those disarmed for troop transports, how many are left?

RFC shot down my idea of steam-sail schooners a couple years back IIRC; ie big enough to carry some bigger shell guns, and enough coal to run the schooner commerce raiders down when they appeared, but not for any extended cruising on steam, but he said it wouldn't work, so he obviously has other plans, and whom am I to argue with the author? :D

However some of the lighter cruiser designs he suggested a year and a half ago might be more in order now.

Given how far southern Desnar is from Silkiah or Siddarmark, it's doubtful it'd be that useful to strip the navy to rebuild the army and send them north when it would take longer than Desnar may have left in the current war.

L



SYED wrote:THEre were two named cities on their coastal part of desnair right, one was the capital. If they struck at them, they could do alot of damage, and did htey not build a couple of hteir naval fleet ships there. Eventually they must be dealt with.

We know tha there are people join the imperial armed forces from the other nations added to the empire, tarot, zebediah, corisande, emerald. I wonder ithey could recruit scourts or raiders of hteir own to help deal with desnair.

We know dohlar is forced to sent their navy men to man their army, with such terrible loses in the republic, i wonder if desnair would need to recall their crews to send them to hold the border. Especially if they believe their own cities are about to be attacked, demonstrate wit hthe capital.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:23 am

lyonheart
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi BunyipBelle,

Yep.

This is quite a shift from the very self confident Rock Point at the end of LaMA, who didn't expect any trouble in crushing Thirsk when the time finally came this summer.

If Sharpfield only has a third of the ICN's roughly 100 galleons, that's far fewer commissioned galleons than I'd been led to expect, let alone thought Cayleb and the inner circle would permit.

I suspect the next snippet will detail the Lt's latest project, and a rifled breech loader seems most likely.

We've had some textev Desnar had some naval heritage, possibly before the republic wars, but now as the only Go4 power in position to effectively threaten the EoC's commerce this was a predictable result.

It's surprising it took them this long to become effective at it.

It shows how all our predictions about how Desnar was out of the war may have been more than a little presumptuous.

From the way RFC has set this up, perhaps the only way to end the schooner commerce raider construction is to permanently occupy the coastal building sites and or river and creek mouth's that the schooners would have to pass thru to the sea; just as Japan effectively blockade China before WWII by occupying all the ports with railroads that could deliver arms to the Chinese, port occupation by infantry being far cheaper than an ongoing naval blockade.

Or the alliance could build offshore platforms out of Desnari gun range, that can have relatively small fast steamboats ready to pursue and destroy any CR schooners that escape the platform's long range guns.

Looking kinda like Dilandu's cool 'steam punk' walking gunboats. ;)

They could be floated in relatively close to shore [2-3 miles?] where needed and flooded down, then have the base and pylons pumped out after the local threat had been eliminated and moved to the next creek or river.

Now that the ICA has fully arrived in theater, the ICN Marines, especially those ~20,000 in southern Siddarmark since early MTaT, ought to be returning to sea, so the undermanned ICN can more easily perform all its duties including destroying such threats to Charis's economic well being.

Given the Eraystors are much larger and more seaworthy, they appear to be intended as off shore blockaders and coastal penetrators when they can, probably with a large marine contingent.

L


bunyipbelle wrote:Thankyou RFC for the snippet. :D
It looks like there has been an interesting development.The Empire of Desnair,which is " the least nautically inclined great power of Safehold" and "Most Desnairians got seasick in a bathtub."
Desnair successfully pursues a "commerce raiding strategy" that has resulted in Charis having to respond by sending "well over half of Sir Domnyk Staynairs warships were now tied down in commerce protection and convey duties" Desnair is doing to Charis's shipping what Charis has been has been doing to everyone else's shipping. :o
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by Randomiser   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:27 am

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Posts: 1452
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Location: Scotland

JMBM thanks for the design info. I think the coastal gunboats in Snippet 8 are more likely to be the City (aka Eraystor) Class with the Delthak II being River or River II Class. See the interesting discussion on capabilities on page 6 of the 'Thirsk & Ahlvarez - Spoiler' thread. RFC chips in about halfway down

http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6299&start=50
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:42 am

lyonheart
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Posts: 4853
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Hi Packhunter,

I believe we have textev that all aerial vehicles are forbidden mortals until the CoGA repeals its ban.

L


packhunter wrote:Towed Hot air observation ballons on convoys might help with avoiding contact with raiders.

And would lay the ground work for an Airship fleet....

I really want to see an Airship fleet. I always felt Corisande would be the perfect pioneers for such a project.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:02 am

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2541
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 1:44 pm
Location: Russia

lyonheart wrote:Hi Packhunter,

I believe we have textev that all aerial vehicles are forbidden mortals until the CoGA repeals its ban.

L
]


Hi, Lyonheart.

Well, this isn't the ban that would be really smart for Langhorne & Co. It's too hard to mantain: the hot air gallons is pretty easly to build. And if some ban could be broken lightly and without consequenses... It would be smart thing to not impose that ban at all.

And after all, we could always say that the airships didn't fly. :) They float; they are simply the good, godly old-fashioned ships, that build to float not in water by also in air. :)
Last edited by Dilandu on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: HFQ Official Snippet #8
Post by jmbm   » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:10 am

jmbm
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:49 pm

Randomiser wrote: See the interesting discussion on capabilities on page 6 of the 'Thirsk & Ahlvarez - Spoiler' thread. RFC chips in about halfway down
http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6299&start=50


Thanks Randomiser, now it's much clearer.

The Delthak II-class design is intended for riverine conditions, and so will have even shorter endurances and will carry its guns closer to the water. The Eraystor-class design (which I think I’ve mentioned a time or two) will be true coastal ironclads, with properly casemated guns, but they will still be hull-mounted weapons (and hence vulnerable to being washed out/flooded/blinded in moderate or severe weather), and their bunkerage will still be sufficiently limited to restrict their cruising endurance/operational radius and thus their ability to self-deploy to the distances Charisian strategy will require.
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