Safehold astronomy

DrakBibliophile wrote:Owl and Nimue likely didn't have an "after" copy of the Writ in Nimue's cave. They'd have to "acquire" a copy after Nimue woke up.

We did see Merlin thinking about the changes to the Writ early in OAR but the "thing" that hit "him" most strongly was the Writ's treatment of Shan-Wei and her allies.

IE the book of the Writ dealing with Shan-Wei's "rebellion".

Any other changes to the Writ weren't as important to Merlin as that book.

It's a "shame" that David Weber hasn't given us full copies of the Writ, before and after.

Hildum wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Owl and Nimue likely didn't have an "after" copy of the Writ in Nimue's cave. They'd have to "acquire" a copy after Nimue woke up.

We did see Merlin thinking about the changes to the Writ early in OAR but the "thing" that hit "him" most strongly was the Writ's treatment of Shan-Wei and her allies.

IE the book of the Writ dealing with Shan-Wei's "rebellion".

Any other changes to the Writ weren't as important to Merlin as that book.

It's a "shame" that David Weber hasn't given us full copies of the Writ, before and after.

Not sure I would want to read the Book of Schueler.

Caliban wrote:<Snip>
Apparently Duchairn thought Schueler (based on his book) would have condemned Clyntahn
<Snip>.

As if even the condemnation of Scheuler would stop that fornicating pig's arse from going on. Or even slow him down.

I can envision Clyntahn going into a megalomaniacal rant about how 'You haven't been around for, what, 1000 years, and now You wanna call me out on doing what was neccessary to save Mother Church from the Heretical Charisians, not to mention that Chisholmian bint and her pack of illegitimate etc,etc,

runsforcelery wrote:
The Holy Writ uses Ptolemey's deferents, epicycles, and equants but with the Writ supplying the "official" distances to the other system bodies in order to ensure that all the epicycles work out to the same distance as the sun's apparent orbit around Safehold. The other planets aren't planets like Safehold; instead, they are worlds which might have become other homes for Man, as Safehold did, if only Shan-wei hadn't fallen and led the rebellion against God's plan. Had Shan-wei not rebelled, those additional inhabited worlds would have orbited in Safehold's heavens against the magnificent backdrop of the stars forever.

As for the apparent motion of the stars, that, too, is a deliberate gift from God, a vast tapestry set to change forever in Safehold's heavens.

No telescope which can be fabricated without first violating the Proscriptions is going to disprove any of the above. People asking the right questions even without telescopes could undoubtedly unravel it, but first they'd have to have a reason to ask the questions in the first place. The model they have works; this is a society which absolutely accepts the accuracy of the Writ and all of the firsthand accounts left by 8,000,000 Adams and Eves; and there is very little likelihood that anyone would ask those questions under those circumstances. There is even less likelihood that he would ask them twice once the Inqusition had a word with him.

The system isn't perfect or infallible, but, then, Langhorne's entire plan assumed a degree of infallibility that was inherently unobtainable. It is pretty well thought out, however, and the Church was instituted as the checking mechanism intended to keep his intellectual dykes from sprouting leaks.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Since, questions about the Holy Writ and the Ptolemaic system has come up again, I thought I'd "bring this topic back to the top".

runsforcelery wrote:
The Holy Writ uses Ptolemey's deferents, epicycles, and equants but with the Writ supplying the "official" distances to the other system bodies in order to ensure that all the epicycles work out to the same distance as the sun's apparent orbit around Safehold. The other planets aren't planets like Safehold; instead, they are worlds which might have become other homes for Man, as Safehold did, if only Shan-wei hadn't fallen and led the rebellion against God's plan. Had Shan-wei not rebelled, those additional inhabited worlds would have orbited in Safehold's heavens against the magnificent backdrop of the stars forever.

As for the apparent motion of the stars, that, too, is a deliberate gift from God, a vast tapestry set to change forever in Safehold's heavens.

No telescope which can be fabricated without first violating the Proscriptions is going to disprove any of the above. People asking the right questions even without telescopes could undoubtedly unravel it, but first they'd have to have a reason to ask the questions in the first place. The model they have works; this is a society which absolutely accepts the accuracy of the Writ and all of the firsthand accounts left by 8,000,000 Adams and Eves; and there is very little likelihood that anyone would ask those questions under those circumstances. There is even less likelihood that he would ask them twice once the Inqusition had a word with him.

The system isn't perfect or infallible, but, then, Langhorne's entire plan assumed a degree of infallibility that was inherently unobtainable. It is pretty well thought out, however, and the Church was instituted as the checking mechanism intended to keep his intellectual dykes from sprouting leaks.

Weird Harold wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Since, questions about the Holy Writ and the Ptolemaic system has come up again, I thought I'd "bring this topic back to the top".

The way this thread drifted is probably going to derail your intent.

That said, I'm somewhat surprised that Charis (or one of the other 'out islands') didn't disagree with the Writ on this point because Astronomy and Navigation at sea are so closely intertwined.

DrakBibliophile wrote:While not being an expert on navigation by the stars, I suspect Charisian seamen would not navigate by the other planets of the Safehold system so any "errors" in the Holy Writ's view of the Safehold system would not be a factor in navigation.

Weird Harold wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:While not being an expert on navigation by the stars, I suspect Charisian seamen would not navigate by the other planets of the Safehold system so any "errors" in the Holy Writ's view of the Safehold system would not be a factor in navigation.

True, but navigators and astronomers both spend a lot of time watching and becoming familiar with the (night) sky. If anyone would notice discrepancies between the sky and the Writ it would be navigators or astronomers. Safehold pretty much lacks any of the latter worthy of the name.

Keith_w wrote:...

When there was a discussion about teaching navigation and the new math, I seem to recall that Charisian captains sailed by memory (log books), wind and currents.

As for the sky, I don't recall any mention of any pre-sextant methods of measuring the angle between celestial objects and the horizon such as Back-Staffs, or Cross-Staffs for determining latitude, (nor timers to determine longitude) so it may be possible that they didn't spend all that much time looking at the stars. I do recall mention that Charisian captains were more likely to dare the open ocean than other nations galley captains who were more likely to hug coasts while sailing to their destination.