HFQ Official Snippet #2

This confirms my long held theory that Aivah is TOO good at espionage and clandestine activities to have taught herself and founded her own organization. I made the case awhile back that she had to have been brought into an already existing organization. One of the few times I have theorized something and been dead on. I have certainly been wrong plenty of times.

alj_sf wrote:More information is very good, but RFC was very careful to release only as little as possible !

So that is another centuries old org, and Khody is probably a founder/important member. I start to suspect they may in fact not based in Zion but perhaps in Siddar which may explain some things.

The important questions I see are as following :

- What are the long term goals ? They seem different than the Brethen's ones.
- What are the every day actions and strategy ? Staying hidden this deep is very very hard, if you do any activity, not only collating info. And we know from prior textev that Inquisition is not aware of the existence of this opponent. But they are very active if they striked back against rioters.

A point I notice is that there is no evidence so far it is one of the Shan-wei groups seeds. It obviously come from the war of the fallen, but could originate from one of the loosing sides and that could be a serious problem if their goals are not compatible. They may want to restore the church to a state prior the addition of the Schuller books. Why I think this ? They striked against inquisition worst parts and followers.

Something else we can toss in here is to note that they seem to be a very different kind of group than the Brethren of St. Zherneau... The Brethren are a cloister of religious who preserved their secret by very closely guarding access and preparing people to receive it by teaching tolerance. Nynian's group, on the other hand, seems cloak and dagger with a focus on gathering information, making provision for specific action groups by sleeper cells, etc. They do have contact with religious orders such as the nunnery which is apparently how Nynian was recruited. But their basic thrust seems different.

Here is another thought. I wonder how deeply into all of this Adorai Dynnys has been or if she simply served to help Nynian's dealings with the circle and nothing else.

One could also ask about the Wylsyn brothers... Was their knowledge and involvement restricted to the circle?

Don

Don

Well, wrong again. I thought that other groups hide themselves so deeply that they wound up hiding from themselves - that is, they dried up and went of of existence. Clearly, they did not. Having aid that, that increases the odds that Siddermark holds a third. I suspect that we can rule Harchong out.

I have not read the other posts, but I suspect that the school she was sent to was the above ground part of circle 2. Could her foster parents have been members?

Well, this may be the Siddarmark secret group.

Seriously, I suspect this group is "head-quartered" in the Temple Lands so there may still be one in Siddarmark.

walt wrote:Well, wrong again. I thought that other groups hide themselves so deeply that they wound up hiding from themselves - that is, they dried up and went of of existence. Clearly, they did not. Having aid that, that increases the odds that Siddermark holds a third. I suspect that we can rule Harchong out.

Just an idea, guys, since the information passed to the EOC had to do with excesses in the Vicarate (including the Inquisition, but the specific targets were Vicars).

Is this who watches the watchmen?

Had they in the past revealed themselves to the Grand Inquisitor, being a part (not apart) from the Inquisition itself? With Clyntahn's theft of the vote and obvious corruption, did they decide that they needed to remain in the shadows this cycle?

From my perspective, this is the best way for this organization to flourish - it doesn't hide from the Inquisition because it IS the Inquisition. Key people, chosen for their integrity (perhaps a Temple Guard Captain we know?) are brought inside. Others, mainly clerks that are all but invisible to the high and mighty of Zion, simply ensure that extra copies of reports go into a file cabinet. Or that they get mis-filed, never to be seen again.

They're moving now because while there's been corruption, there's never been an out-and-out attempt at destroying a nation by the COGA. And because it came out of a GO4 meeting (no special notes - the first push was via Traynair (?sp) and diplomacy with Hector) the watchers were caught off guard.

Then the circle fell - again, with someone bypassing the standard Inquisition chain and going directly to Clyntahn's main man. The subtle chance for reform and moderation lost, they move on to try a new tack by supporting the subterfuge of Siddarmark's merchant houses. Small steps, remaining in the shadows, to undermine Clyntahn's insanity.

Then the Sword. Again, something set in motion from an isolated group in the Inquisition - the only people in Zion who knew were Clyntahn and his man. Everything else had been done at the far end, away from the watchers in Zion.

So they send their best agent to help preserve the Republic. Their last, best chance to reform the COGA from within instead of without. If Siddarmark wins, the COGA can possibly 'reform' and survive. If Charis wins, Zion will never again be the center of the world.

Note that the Protector has not established 'The Church of Siddarmark'. They are, rather 'Reformists'. How much is from her influence? How easy would it have been for her to create a schismatic church, with the Protector's blessing, in the aftermath of the Sword?

So here we are, the watchers coming to the fore - perhaps having been warned that 'one day, when the time is the darkest, a seijin will come. They will not claim the title, but you will know them by their deeds. Do not doubt they have come to set things aright, though their actions may be impossible to fathom.'

Just sayin'.

Dave

Your post contain plenty of interesting speculation but I'm only commenting on part of it.

I'm not sure that the founders of this group knew about Nimue.

Knowledge of her existence was by only a few people.

According to what we read in OAR at time of Kau-yung's last message to Nimue, only two people knew of her existence (admittedly Kau-yung didn't know about Jeremiah Knowles) and both would soon be dead.

Jeremiah Knowles's letter stated that he learned about Nimue by accident.

While Aivah/Nynian didn't seem to be very surprised by the appearance of Merlin, I still doubt that the founders of this group knew about Nimue.

Of course, the next snippet may prove you correct.

Lazalarlives wrote:
Snipped by Drak



So here we are, the watchers coming to the fore - perhaps having been warned that 'one day, when the time is the darkest, a seijin will come. They will not claim the title, but you will know them by their deeds. Do not doubt they have come to set things aright, though their actions may be impossible to fathom.'

Just sayin'.

Dave

Drak,
I never said the seijin they were expecting was Nimue...



Dave

Very Good Point.

Lazalarlives wrote:Drak,
I never said the seijin they were expecting was Nimue...



Dave

Hi PeterZ,

I think it was 350 years after their deaths that the package in the safe was to be opened.

I'd expect the chief abbot or monk to have written in his journal his reaction to the heretical revelations, which should have been also kept for future use as Saint Zherneau's 'inner circle' developed their plan that Maikel has referenced from time to time.

What's also very intriguing is Seijin Kohdy's relationship with Shan-wei, did he have one, did he know the truth, or did he discover it later?

Regardless, his sounds different from Schueler's attempt via the Wylsynn family, so call it the third secret watch society; that apparently concentrated on watching the watchdogs, which is why they were never noticed until they began killing so of the worst.

If RFC blesses us with another snippet next Friday that answers some of these questions, Halleluiah!

Please bless Sharon, RFC, and their kids; may all go well with them for the next several month's at least.

Boy am I selfish or what!

L

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:I'm feeling pretty good that my speculation about there being an organization passing along institutional knowlege and training behind Aivah (Nynian) being pretty much right on.

My next speculation is that Nynian will turn out to be friend not foe...

One little nit...The brethren are traceable back to Jeremiah and Evelyn Knowles so Nynian's organization can't go back MUCH further than that since they were Adams and Eves.

Don

The Brethren did not form until they opened Jeremiah's sealed letter and cases of documents. That happened several hundred years after Jeremiah Knowles died. Nynian's group was a going concern prior to the Brethren forming. That could have been during the War of the Fallen or perhaps within 100 years of Creation.