Is Duchairn conspiring to overthrow Clyntahn?

PeterZ wrote:
<<SNIP>>
I'll enjoy mine late this year or early next year.

I keep forgetting what an optimist you are when it comes to RFC. What, exactly, makes you think that he will make it that easy for us to figure out?

KNick wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
<<SNIP>>
I'll enjoy mine late this year or early next year.

I keep forgetting what an optimist you are when it comes to RFC. What, exactly, makes you think that he will make it that easy for us to figure out?

I'm not trying to figure out where RFC is going with his story as much as I'm enjoying the story he has already told. Sometimes for me it does involve speculation. Often it involves the sort of conjecture I indulged in with this thread. Part of an author's purpose in story telling is to stimulate the imagination, after all. RFC would be gratified to know he is accomplishing that and certainly not surprised that our imaginations take off in different directions.

One comment about Aivah. My presumption is that she is a highly trained professional trained by other professionals. In that context she has succeded and excelled rather than being a talented amateur. There is certainly no insult in this nor any belittling of her accomlishments which are impressive no matter how you come down on this issue. It is merely how what we know of her in the books makes the best sense to me.

Don

n7axw wrote:I'm not trying to figure out where RFC is going with his story as much as I'm enjoying the story he has already told. Sometimes for me it does involve speculation. Often it involves the sort of conjecture I indulged in with this thread. Part of an author's purpose in story telling is to stimulate the imagination, after all. RFC would be gratified to know he is accomplishing that and certainly not surprised that our imaginations take off in different directions.

One comment about Aivah. My presumption is that she is a highly trained professional trained by other professionals. In that context she has succeded and excelled rather than being a talented amateur. There is certainly no insult in this nor any belittling of her accomlishments which are impressive no matter how you come down on this issue. It is merely how what we know of her in the books makes the best sense to me.

Don

Perhaps I snipped too much of PeterZ's post. I meant that I am not sure that RFC will give us the answer to the Aivah question in the next book. Peter optimistically assumes he will, while I'm not so sure, myself. Probably some more peeks into her operations, a few clues to her history and not much else.

As far as your analysis of Aivah is concerned, I think you laid out your argument quite well and it is a highly plausible scenario.

Nod.

I don't know if Aivah created her organization or "inherited" an organization, but I agree that she had training from somebody.

n7axw wrote:I'm not trying to figure out where RFC is going with his story as much as I'm enjoying the story he has already told. Sometimes for me it does involve speculation. Often it involves the sort of conjecture I indulged in with this thread. Part of an author's purpose in story telling is to stimulate the imagination, after all. RFC would be gratified to know he is accomplishing that and certainly not surprised that our imaginations take off in different directions.

One comment about Aivah. My presumption is that she is a highly trained professional trained by other professionals. In that context she has succeded and excelled rather than being a talented amateur. There is certainly no insult in this nor any belittling of her accomlishments which are impressive no matter how you come down on this issue. It is merely how what we know of her in the books makes the best sense to me.

Don

KNick wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
<<SNIP>>
I'll enjoy mine late this year or early next year.

I keep forgetting what an optimist you are when it comes to RFC. What, exactly, makes you think that he will make it that easy for us to figure out?

This is indeed RFC's sort to tell. My suspicion is that this story arc ends with the next book. While Aivah/Anzhelique/Nynian will continue to play a deep role in the story, her history won't be as hidden in the next story arc.

Btw, RFC has to tell us something to prevent his story telling from
appearing too much like deus ex machina.

Remember that Aivah as a Vicar's illegitimate daughter and received all the training such get, which is pretty darn good, and she wasn't cut off. She grew up with Adorai.

She /had/ money from her parents. I think she simply started investing immediately. The razor and all, that's a lot more simple than another organization in Zion when the Circle's already destroyed. Zion has /another/ one?

Icarium wrote:Remember that Aivah as a Vicar's illegitimate daughter and received all the training such get, which is pretty darn good, and she wasn't cut off. She grew up with Adorai.

She /had/ money from her parents. I think she simply started investing immediately. The razor and all, that's a lot more simple than another organization in Zion when the Circle's already destroyed. Zion has /another/ one?

We have Adorai's word for that (raised with, previous history) it could be a cover. The truth may be something else. Could Aivah be the Nynian of history that was kidnapped and started a war (Troy)?. Adorai is also related to Church aristocracy and could be part of a matriarchal Inner Circle or even be the original daughter of the Vicar. Aivah could be another PICA and part of another conspiracy.

So much time before HFQ to speculate and have RFC make fools of us for that speculation. I prefer another Circle - why only one? What happened in the War against the Fallen and where is the technology that was most likely hoarded by all survivors?

Yes. Everyone could be lying and all information we've been given, including inner thoughts, could be wrong and misdirection.

But how likely is that? Occam's Razor and all.

But then, I find the intense need to make Aivah super special instead of simply an uber-smart woman boggling, though.

Where is the evidence that Adorai lied?

Until we have such evidence, the assumption should be that she was telling the truth.

Otherwise, you're basically saying that David Weber is lying to his readers.

While David Weber has failed to give us all the information (as he did with Rhobair Seablanket), he doesn't lie to us.

dwileye13 wrote:
We have Adorai's word for that (raised with, previous history) it could be a cover. The truth may be something else. Could Aivah be the Nynian of history that was kidnapped and started a war (Troy)?. Adorai is also related to Church aristocracy and could be part of a matriarchal Inner Circle or even be the original daughter of the Vicar. Aivah could be another PICA and part of another conspiracy.

So much time before HFQ to speculate and have RFC make fools of us for that speculation. I prefer another Circle - why only one? What happened in the War against the Fallen and where is the technology that was most likely hoarded by all survivors?

Icarium wrote:Yes. Everyone could be lying and all information we've been given, including inner thoughts, could be wrong and misdirection.

But how likely is that? Occam's Razor and all.

But then, I find the intense need to make Aivah super special instead of simply an uber-smart woman boggling, though.

Sometimes Occam's razor is over rated... or at least not very much fun...

Don