Steam

Oops its the Maxim machine gun I spell wore than a treecat and they can't spell at all.

What might move things along, might be just going straight to Steam Turbines , they already know how to make turbines that they use in their collectors at the steal works.
also they could use that technology to bypass the internal combustion engine all together, GE in WW2 used what they knew about Steam Turbines on the 1st US jet engines.like not just in aircraft but in Tanks and GM did build a car that used a jet engine. Less moving parts and with what some of them already know, why not?
just something to think about.

pokermind wrote:Using steam to propel a projectile like gun-powder forget it too high a pressure needed for a reasonable muzzle velocity. Hook a small steam engine up to a Gatling gun crank why bother make a Gardner gun and then upgrade to a maximum machine gun.
Why are all you SIFI gun-nuts fixed on the Gatling, more barrels, heavier, and cumbersome or the multirace even worse! the paths that the bolts follow are machined in a cylinder oodles of fun to machine.
So wicki the Gardner or check it out on you-tube. it uses simple easy to machine cams, and the Gardner is the direct ancestor of the maximum machine gun.

The Gatling gun has several significant advantages with cooling, mechanical reliability, and gravity-fed ammunition. The Gardner gun incorporated many of the same features, but both of them require a drawn-brass cartridge. The Gatling design would could easily be derived from a mitrailleuse-type design to provide additional firepower in the field.

Of course, a steam/belt-driven Gatling with a sufficiently large ammunition hopper would be capable of extremely high rates of fire, faster than any human could turn a crank.

Panther Al wrote:

Alistair wrote:

MGP wrote:Just a thought, but, mechanically, diesel engines are not that much different from steam engines. Reciprocating pistons, compression and rotation. The major difference is combustion outside of the engine in the case of steam, as opposed to internal combustion caused by compression in the case of diesel.

I certainly think it might be possible to build a steam driven armoued vechile/tank without violating the prescriptions.

(At least possible with Charis' Intendent!)

Heh.


Spent six years in tanks, and I know steam. You couldn't get me within a mile of a steam powered tank. While conceptually it might sound good, you have to remember, we are talking about steam. You put a boiler inside a big metal box, with tiny access hatches, its just a mater of time before you have a leak, or worse, a boiler explosion that is guaranteed to cause horrible maiming on a regular basis.

I'd rather stand buck naked in front of a line of Charisian Marines waiting for the Fire command than get in one of those!

I have to agree, operating next to a (prototype) steam engine & boiler would be more than a bit frightening. The way we find high-pressure steam leaks in the Navy is with a broom handle. When the end gets suddenly sliced off, you found your leak. Imagine what happens when your arm suddenly finds a steam leak caused by your "tank" taking a hit from a 12-pounder. For that matter, do the Charisians even know how to rivet, let alone weld at this point in time?

snip:

Thaliodin wrote:
For that matter, do the Charisians even know how to rivet, let alone weld at this point in time?

I infer that Charisians do indeed know how to rivet as the best quality chain mail was a mix of solid and riveted rings, a large number of leather projects depend on rivets to join pieces together, and helms formed of multiple pieces were often riveted.

There will certainly be teething problems as you scale up from small rivets such as used in mail to large rivets to join structural members of a ship's frame or a steam boiler but the idea is there.

Howdy Panther Al,

I don't doubt your expertise, but you might want to check out Col Robert J Icks (ret'd) article on Steam Power for Tanks, at whatifmodelers.com.

Colonel Icks had quite a highly deserved reputation as a tank and ordnance expert before, during and after WW2; and wrote a number of excellent books over decades.

Among other reports I've read, the Armed Forces Journal article back in 1976 included the suggestion of a Doble designed and built 1000 horsepower steam engine for tanks; which thanks to not using a transmission, would have provided 4 times the real power to weight ratio of the Ford GAF 500 hp engined Pershing tank when it eventually appeared, or roughly double what the M-1 Abrams actually had originally, granted it would have been too much power for the suspension system, but it indicates the possibilities.

The AFJ article made it plain the real reason it didn't happen is Detroit's big 3 didn't want GI's coming home wanting to drive steam cars instead of the gasoline powered cars they made.

Given the points Col. Icks makes, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't steam powered AFV's in Safehold's future.

Best wishes,

L


[quote="Panther Al"][quote="Alistair"][quote="MGP"]Just a thought, but, mechanically, diesel engines are not that much different from steam engines. Reciprocating pistons, compression and rotation. The major difference is combustion outside of the engine in the case of steam, as opposed to internal combustion caused by compression in the case of diesel.[/quote]

I certainly think it might be possible to build a steam driven armoued vechile/tank without violating the prescriptions.

(At least possible with Charis' Intendent!)[/quote]


Heh.


Spent six years in tanks, and I know steam. You couldn't get me within a mile of a steam powered tank. While conceptually it might sound good, you have to remember, we are talking about steam. You put a boiler inside a big metal box, with tiny access hatches, its just a mater of time before you have a leak, or worse, a boiler explosion that is guaranteed to cause horrible maiming on a regular basis.

I'd rather stand buck naked in front of a line of Charisian Marines waiting for the Fire command than get in one of those![/quote]

Hi Lyonheart

Steam powered tanks eh ??

EXCELLENT post sir !!

Thanks

R

Hi Kbus888,

But how will they be rated?

By horse or dragon power? :-)

Keep smiling,

L

kbus888 wrote:Hi Lyonheart

Steam powered tanks eh ??

EXCELLENT post sir !!

Thanks

R

Hi RDT,

Has anyone detected any steam punk tendencies in RFC?

IIRC, the green spots on the maps implied oil deposits, and I haven't seen any correction.

Then there was the earl of Black Water...

Keep smiling,

L

rdt wrote:Ah! David is creating a steampunk society on Safehold. I an outta here!

Before they can use fossil fuels, other than coal, and assuming they even exist, they will have to have better metallurgy. Drilling, with the kind of metals for bits that exist now on Safehold, is nearly impossible, definitely expensive as heck and...where is the oil? The science of geology may reside in owl's files, but we can safely assume that by the time in Earth's history that Safehold was established, fossil fuel use was long past.

Two things: Gatling guns and steam-powered vehicles.

Steam-powered vehicles first, the British used a steam-powered road vehicle very much like a train but it didn't need to run on tracks. They used it in South Africa during one of their many wars at the end of the 19th century. Put some armor on the front, on the sides, and on the troop-carrying wagons attached and you have an APC of sorts. However I'm certain everyone will claim it is Shanwei's own war chariot.

Gatling Guns: I just started as an American Civil War reenactor and at one of the reenactments somebody had a Gatling Gun. We could hear it in the distance. POP POP POP -crickets- POP -crickets- -crickets- POP POP.
Out of a 30 round magazine there were over 25 misfires. So at least the one he had wasn't very reliable.