HFQ Official Snippet #23

SYED wrote:If propeler drag is so bad, they might need to create a minum speed that they can be used at, while allowing hteir speed to be augemented by the sails. So they will always need to have fuel even for sail speeding.

They're big, heavy ships. Even without propeller drag, they're going to be very slow under sails.

They're designed to be under steam power continuously. The provision for sail capability is there as a worst case scenario last resort.
If they're under sails, something has gone rather badly wrong.

EdThomas wrote:

n7axw wrote:SNIP

I think you've got a good point here. At least finding more iron and coal would expand the production of steel...

Don

I don't recall any textev concerning locations of various minerals being marked on the maps so the question becomes how does one find new deposits of iron, coal, tin, etc especially where they aren't sticking up through the surface. I took Rocks 1 many years ago but I don't recall anything about locating mineral deposits below the ground's surface. Can you use a special divining rod?

Critical deposits have been marked and are known to OWL. The mountains of the Border states are rich in Iron Ore - there are deposits in Chisholm and the alternate blast furnaces in central Charis are near sources.

Means of Production and transport are the keys. Railroads fit the glass slipper

dwileye13 wrote:SNIP
Critical deposits have been marked and are known to OWL. The mountains of the Border states are rich in Iron Ore - there are deposits in Chisholm and the alternate blast furnaces in central Charis are near sources.

Means of Production and transport are the keys. Railroads fit the glass slipper

It's a given that Owl knows of and/or can find other deposits. How does Merlin get mere mortals to find these deposits since they don't even know how to spell geology at this point.

Question about the Awakening - were the coal and iron mines built by the Archangels just sitting there awaiting the miners to clock in and start digging?

EdThomas wrote:

dwileye13 wrote:SNIP
Critical deposits have been marked and are known to OWL. The mountains of the Border states are rich in Iron Ore - there are deposits in Chisholm and the alternate blast furnaces in central Charis are near sources.

Means of Production and transport are the keys. Railroads fit the glass slipper

It's a given that Owl knows of and/or can find other deposits. How does Merlin get mere mortals to find these deposits since they don't even know how to spell geology at this point.

Question about the Awakening - were the coal and iron mines built by the Archangels just sitting there awaiting the miners to clock in and start digging?

Merlin "has a vision" and points the higher ups where to go, people get sent to start infrastructure and mining, and digging exploratory shafts.

n7axw wrote:

SYED wrote:We know the steam ship they built for the navy is also a sailing ship. It will take a while before thay can just have pure steam ships, they would have to have a logistical system for parts and fuel.
Currently the empire has the best sailing ships around. so how hard would it be to augement them. First the ships that ply the lanes between the islands, then eventually to the safer ports, then once hte war is over the whole world.

Nope. The Haarahlds are steamers. They do have provision for masts and sails, but everybody most fervently hopes they will never have to resort to that because the drag from the screw propellers would be so severe that the speed under sail would only be about 2 knots.

Don

That would depend on how the drive train was implemented. It's certainly possible to design for minimum drag, or, for that matter, hydrodynamic housings for propellers and screws that could minimize drag when not in use, but, given exactly *how* progress tends to be made on Safehold, it's not likely that would happen in the first design.

OrlandoNative wrote:
That would depend on how the drive train was implemented. It's certainly possible to design for minimum drag, or, for that matter, hydrodynamic housings for propellers and screws that could minimize drag when not in use, but, given exactly *how* progress tends to be made on Safehold, it's not likely that would happen in the first design.

You do make a good point. However what I'm saying is that the Haarahlds, as currently represented in the books, do have the problem with drag as described. You are undoubtedly know better than I how to design a way around the issue, but that is not what we have with the Haarahlds.

Don

n7axw wrote:

OrlandoNative wrote:
That would depend on how the drive train was implemented. It's certainly possible to design for minimum drag, or, for that matter, hydrodynamic housings for propellers and screws that could minimize drag when not in use, but, given exactly *how* progress tends to be made on Safehold, it's not likely that would happen in the first design.

You do make a good point. However what I'm saying is that the Haarahlds, as currently represented in the books, do have the problem with drag as described. You are undoubtedly know better than I how to design a way around the issue, but that is not what we have with the Haarahlds.

Don

Someplace there was a reference to being able to do something to the propellers to obviate this difficulty, something about raising them or casing them. However, that may have been a different class of ship.

OrlandoNative wrote:
That would depend on how the drive train was implemented. It's certainly possible to design for minimum drag, or, for that matter, hydrodynamic housings for propellers and screws that could minimize drag when not in use, but, given exactly *how* progress tends to be made on Safehold, it's not likely that would happen in the first design.

n7axw wrote:You do make a good point. However what I'm saying is that the Haarahlds, as currently represented in the books, do have the problem with drag as described. You are undoubtedly know better than I how to design a way around the issue, but that is not what we have with the Haarahlds.

Don

phillies wrote:Someplace there was a reference to being able to do something to the propellers to obviate this difficulty, something about raising them or casing them. However, that may have been a different class of ship.

That was something that was considered, but decided not to implement for whatever reason - possibly being too finnicky in its requirements for reliable operation.
The Charisian steam powered ships are designed to be functionally exclusively steam powered, and only have sails as an emergency contingency, not a regular form of secondary propulsion.

FYI, the Ferguson Breech-Loading Rifle live!

SYED wrote:We know the steam ship they built for the navy is also a sailing ship. It will take a while before thay can just have pure steam ships, they would have to have a logistical system for parts and fuel.
Currently the empire has the best sailing ships around. so how hard would it be to augement them. First the ships that ply the lanes between the islands, then eventually to the safer ports, then once hte war is over the whole world.

The early practice was to rig the propellers to be retractable with a dog clutch to the propeller shaft. A more advanced alternative was a self feathering prop still commonly fitted to sailing boats (at the expense of no reverse power). The more complex option is a controllable pitch propeller (which also eliminates the need to stop and reverse the engine to go astern) or its more complex brother, the constant speed propeller where the pitch is controlled by the engine governor and the thrust by the throttle. All of these are achievable at Charis's current tech level.
Sail assisted cargo ships are on the drawing boards now - subject to fuel prices to justify. Sail assisted passenger ships are in service now. The earlier attempts were driven by fuel quantities available and engine efficiencies, more currently by fuel price and profit margins.