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HFQ Offical Snippet #4

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by OlorinNight   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:15 am

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PeterZ wrote: Let's see now....

Khody was a womanizer and also had a reputation for enjoying earthy pleasures. Somewhere someone charactertized him as a "marine on shore leave". Furthermore, he obviously had access to technology or he wouldn't have been called a seijin. Nynian called him a saint and a seijin. That means he was at most an Adam. Yet he speaks spanish.

It strikes me that either Khody was reeducated or he was a low level crew member that was never reprogrammed. I am leaning towards the latter. He followed orders about he needed to do regarding the succession wars (War of the Fallen), but he never enmbraced Bedard's religion. He behaved in ways that was inconsistent with the moral teachings of the CoG and later CoGA. That alone would have earned him banishment from the church's list of approved saints. He was after all NOT an adherent of the CoG and CoGA teachings.

So this marine private makes a name for himself by following orders given to him by his superiors. Those superiors need his skill after Commodore Pei's pocket nuke gutted a goodly chunk of the crew. Problem was that this private never truly embraced actually living as Bedard's religion would have him live. Given his proclivities, he likely worked with a largely female team. That team likely became the core of Nynian's Sisterhood. Since the CoG and CoGA never really emphasized sexual abstinance, Khody's and perhaps later the Sisterhood's acceptance of free sexual expression was viewed more as slightly odd than anathema. That oddity became less acceptable after the war was won. This explains why his name was removed from the list of saints.

If Khody was part of the colony's crew, he would have been long lived. That means he would have been able to train generations of team members during the War of the Fallen. The training program could have been institutionalized well before his death and might well have continued in the form of a pseudo-religious order that became a truly religious one in time.

Nynian's sisterhood then was born in war and tempered by centuries of hiding from the intolerant attention of the Inquisition. Its guiding principles are those from someone who isn't blinded by a doctrine that is onconsistent with reality. The Writ's description of physics are as far removed from reality as anything on Safehold. Such a group as hers cannot be blind to reality or it would have been discovered ages ago. So, Nynian's group is likely one of the handful of organizations that have been trained to first assume nothing and then begin to think through problems.

...


I may be wrong, but it seems to me that RFC mentionned once or twice that Nynian was not part of a group that had been created BY Khody.

Taking that into account, I would think that the sorority was created by people who knew Khody, but that he had nothing (ar at best only a few things) to do with it's creation. It then seems doubtful that any training program that the sorrority may have or had may have been initiated by Khody.

rom what we know of him, it is not even sure that he may have needed the support of a group made of only safeholdians, especially if he had the backing of the surviving crew members (which he may have had, if he was careful and kept his disillusions for himself).

I'm not saying taht he did not had any contact among the "native" safeholdians, just that we have no evidence that he had something like that (we have no evidence of the opposite either).
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:23 am

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PeterZ wrote:Let's see now....

Khody was a womanizer and also had a reputation for enjoying earthy pleasures.


And this precludes Kohdy from being female because... :?
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:30 am

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OlorinNight wrote:I may be wrong, but it seems to me that RFC mentionned once or twice that Nynian was not part of a group that had been created BY Khody.

Taking that into account, I would think that the sorority was created by people who knew Khody, but that he had nothing (or at best only a few things) to do with it's creation. It then seems doubtful that any training program that the sorrority may have or had may have been initiated by Khody.

rom what we know of him, it is not even sure that he may have needed the support of a group made of only safeholdians, especially if he had the backing of the surviving crew members (which he may have had, if he was careful and kept his disillusions for himself).

I'm not saying taht he did not had any contact among the "native" safeholdians, just that we have no evidence that he had something like that (we have no evidence of the opposite either).


First, if we had evidence, we wouldn't need to speculate. RFC values his readers too much not to provide us our small pleasures.

Second, IIRC what RFC said was that Nynian was not invloved with anything "organized" by Khody. Khody could well have trained an ops team but never organized it into any sort of generations spanning organization.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:32 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Let's see now....

Khody was a womanizer and also had a reputation for enjoying earthy pleasures.


And this precludes Kohdy from being female because... :?


That doesn't preclude his being female. Nynian, however, used the male pronoun to refer to him. I trust her in this regard.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by dwileye13   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:46 am

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jkm4 wrote:First post...be gentle please.

tootall wrote

You'll note that her Kohdy seems to be a Schulerite- and a Chihiroite.

Shulerites are the inquisitors and have a seat on the Council.

Chihiroites are the Army of God and have a seat on the council

So if that's her background- her "side" won. Something very interesting must happened to Kohdy after the war ended.

Espanol? Don Quixote indeed!!

The more questions that The Man answers, the more questions arise.
Well done!


I think you're on to something here. Given the Spanish text, Kohdy might well have been (prior to being run through the Safehold language grinder) spelled Quixote and pronounced "Kee Ho Tay" (say it fast ten times). This suggests that Quixote was a pen name or alias, so if the wrong person read the journal, they wouldn't know who wrote it.

Don Quixote was a Spanish nobleman who went a little nuts. His actions have been called Quixotic. Merriam Webster (m-w.com) defines quixotic thus:

1: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action
2: capricious, unpredictable


1 seems like Pei's opinion of Langhornes plan.
2 seems like someone saw Clynton coming.

A journalist usually expects a journal to read by someone. The only person we know of who could get the cultural reference was Nimue. Was she the intended recipient? Is or was there another pre-creation entity out there?

Who is playing Sancho Panza here?


Brilliant!

Quixote = Khoty

I failed to make that connection. Is it a Nom de Plume or Alias for someone? If so . . . ??

That will be an interesting connection and one that could be classic RFC.
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by dwileye13   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:03 am

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PeterZ wrote:SNIP
So, yes, trust her enough to tell her the truth. Problem is that if she doesn't agree with your conclusions or at least many of her leadership group agrees with your conclusions, they can be a truly formidable opponent. The saving grace if her group doesn't agree with Merlin et al is that they will act separately from the CoGA. They will become the CoGA's own pseudo-seijins if not seijins in relaity. We don't know their true capabilities after all. That prospect would be a joy to read about.



I believe Nynian already has the mental perspective that the Church Documents are not infallable and are in fact manipulated. Rational People of Faith have accepted the truth and retained that faith - there is no conflict for them. The Faith is retained and the Church as a fallable organization comes to the fore.

Nynian in a sub-orbit will burn with even more anger toward the Church and the injustice. Can she convince the SSK to accept that truth, well just have Merlin come translate what is in Spanish and give the SSK a text to learn Spanish. They will come to realize (as they probably already have) that the CoC is the best hope for Mother Church.

I do not believe Nynian made the decision to come to Merlin by herself with no Authorization. Or, She is the Mother Superior of the SSK?
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by Theemile   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:17 pm

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dwileye13 wrote:
jkm4 wrote:First post...be gentle please.

I think you're on to something here. Given the Spanish text, Kohdy might well have been (prior to being run through the Safehold language grinder) spelled Quixote and pronounced "Kee Ho Tay" (say it fast ten times). This suggests that Quixote was a pen name or alias, so if the wrong person read the journal, they wouldn't know who wrote it.

Don Quixote was a Spanish nobleman who went a little nuts. His actions have been called Quixotic. Merriam Webster (m-w.com) defines quixotic thus:

1: foolishly impractical especially in the pursuit of ideals; especially : marked by rash lofty romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action
2: capricious, unpredictable

1 seems like Pei's opinion of Langhornes plan.
2 seems like someone saw Clynton coming.

A journalist usually expects a journal to read by someone. The only person we know of who could get the cultural reference was Nimue. Was she the intended recipient? Is or was there another pre-creation entity out there?

Who is playing Sancho Panza here?


Brilliant!

Quixote = Khoty

I failed to make that connection. Is it a Nom de Plume or Alias for someone? If so . . . ??

That will be an interesting connection and one that could be classic RFC.


The name being an alias actually begs another question - was Khoty a single man, or a group of disenfranchised souls? Obviously the church would know if a member of the command crew was using an alias, which Khoty now seems. Could an Adam be the face of the group while a junior member of the Command team be his mentor?

Or, could it be that the church only discovered the true identity of the command crew member playing Khoty later and thus disenfranchised him?
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by Duckk   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:20 pm

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It's Kohdy, not Kohty.
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Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by n7axw   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:49 pm

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Hi Peter,

I think your post explains a quite a bit, but the fact that the sisters of St Kohdy are good at keeping secrets doesn't tell us where the training in professional spycraft and covert action are coming from. The Brethren of St Zherneau are equally good at keeping secrets, but took off in an entirely different direction.

Our sisters are running sleeper cells that rescued archbishops and families of vicars and archbishops, assasinated vicars, infiltrated the inqusition undetected and who knows what else. And some of these people are men. How is the recriiting and training of men being dealt with? I think there is still a lot we don't know.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Offical Snippet #4
Post by Tanstaafl   » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:21 pm

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n7axw wrote:...<snip>.....And some of these people are men. How is the recriiting and training of men being dealt with? I think there is still a lot we don't know.

Don


For women assessing a man in a brothel is not that hard. Men tend to let down their guard in bed with a "dump" whore. Mix a few Mata Hari's with the working girls, And you can fairly well predict which men are open for recruitment.
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...
The abstinents are right,
but only the drinkers know why
― Simon Carmiggelt
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