Official HFQ Snippet #25

anwi wrote:Obviously, if all the people on Chihiro's list are confirmed dead and gone, he can be sure.

Possible but not likely. The fewer left on the list, the more work with less return you get. Like cancer, at some point watchful waiting is less injurious than continuing treatment.

anwi wrote:And I'm not so sure he's paranoid, perhaps he just grabbed for the power when he could get away with it.

The snippet sort of suggests Chihiro was planning this before Alexandria.

I would assume that Chihiro invested in the OBS to use as his (decisive) weapon against all renegates, and he squarely sat in the one command Center that can survive even a near miss of that system
So, from Chihiro's POV, he might not need so much more tech - except of what his group needs for convenience and personal security.

Like drones, or strategic bombers, Chihiro sitting in his C&C under the temple can obliterate any threat he can see... but of course guerrillas look like the civilians; that's the point. So his tech needs extend outside his own requirements.

That said, the climate control of the Temple (which was built post-nuke) almost screams that the Temple was Chihiro's base. Unlike the Fallen, he could fight his war from divine comfort.

As to what Chihiro stashed in the Temple, there's another issue. He can't be sure that no one goes gallivanting around in the Temple's basement, perhaps even demolishing any doors or walls in search for the Archangel's hoard of gold over the centuries.

Huh? No primitive is going to get through a battle steel door or an electronic lock. At minimum you need someone with seijin tools and Fallen advice. And if someone with enough tech knowledge to breach the vault has reached the OBS controls, which we are fairly sure are down there, the Plan is no more or less screwed if they find industrial modules as well.

What is worrying me is that the nature of the War may have led Chihiro to take precautions against Fallen and agents thereof that would work equally well against PICAs and agents thereof.

So, in line with his interpretation of the Safehold mission...

I'm not sure I have a good handle on what Chihiro's mission plan even was. So much of his actions post-nuke seem driven by the needs of the War.

Now, the really interesting question is whether Schueler was eye-to-eye with Chihiro on that score or if Schueler tucked away this control-center without Chihiro's knowledge...

So terribly much depends on what Schueler was really up to. With so many of the Archangels gone, his ability and motivation to play a double game goes way up. And because of the divergence between Schueler-of-the-Book and Schueler-of-the-Key, we know that *someone* played a double game *sometime*....

catfishncod wrote:

anwi wrote:And I'm not so sure he's paranoid, perhaps he just grabbed for the power when he could get away with it.

The snippet sort of suggests Chihiro was planning this before Alexandria.

Actually, my reading is that Chihiro likely played Kau-Yung against Langhorne and Bedard, leaving him in power. Moreover, he triggered the insurrection by the surviving military detachment loyal to Kau-Yung, which allows him to consolidate his control over Langhorne's faction. But that's not necessarily a sign of paranoia. It sure is a sign of a lust for power, and his subsequent actions show signs of megalomania. But more we do not know.

catfishncod wrote:

As to what Chihiro stashed in the Temple, there's another issue. He can't be sure that no one goes gallivanting around in the Temple's basement, perhaps even demolishing any doors or walls in search for the Archangel's hoard of gold over the centuries.

Huh? No primitive is going to get through a battle steel door or an electronic lock. At minimum you need someone with seijin tools and Fallen advice. And if someone with enough tech knowledge to breach the vault has reached the OBS controls, which we are fairly sure are down there, the Plan is no more or less screwed if they find industrial modules as well.
What is worrying me is that the nature of the War may have led Chihiro to take precautions against Fallen and agents thereof that would work equally well against PICAs and agents thereof.

Agreed, if the complete internal structure is built from such harded materials, then such enterprises will be short-lived. On the other hand, the "angels" themselves should have access - and Schueler gives directions to how to gain access to a specific part of the basement at least - so stockpiling a lot of unneccessary things there makes not that much sense.
Obviously, there needs to be some AI in the basement to maintain control of the Temple, but it should be with severely restricted capabilities, because otherwise it would evolve like OWL did and might depart on a course Chihiro would not agree with.
From my POV, the extent of the tech stash in the basement can be argued to be anywhere in the range between Nimue's Cave to enourmous. I favour the previous.

catfishncod wrote:

Now, the really interesting question is whether Schueler was eye-to-eye with Chihiro on that score or if Schueler tucked away this control-center without Chihiro's knowledge...

So terribly much depends on what Schueler was really up to. With so many of the Archangels gone, his ability and motivation to play a double game goes way up. And because of the divergence between Schueler-of-the-Book and Schueler-of-the-Key, we know that *someone* played a double game *sometime*....

Sure, my bet's on Chihiro...
Now, if Chihiro was really devious, he'd not only trapped the Temple's basement (which is a significant possibility Merlin is currently assuming), but he's also beefed up the OBS. It's a definite possibility that Chihiro did a personality recording and stashed that in a major AI on-board the OBS. That could be triggered either by the Temple's remote control or by a timer set to a conveniently near date. And an irate personality copy of Chihiro at the controls of the OBS would give a special flavour to the events after the "Return".
If the authors wants to play rough with Merlin and the CoC in the following books, that possibility would worry me more than most others...
(BTW: The OBS could explain where a lot of the stuff on the Hamilcar ended up. Obviously, Merlin doesn't think that that ship sits at the core of the current OBS, which is a strong indicator that it actually was scuttled, but there could be lots of high-tech facilities of the Hamilcar that could be resting in orbit...)

Question about the last bit of hte text, can someone remind me what was last happening in the northland gap?

Keith_w wrote:
I am pretty sure that when they built the Temple, they arranged to build the entire thing of battle steel, even if it is covered with a façade, in which case nothing the in limited tech world which they are building is going to be able to bash those doors down. Additionally, I am sure that it is a well concealed door in the basement and if you go down there and the AI running the place doesn't recognize you, or you don't have the correct secret code, the secret doors will not open for you. I suggest that there is an AI running the place because something has to manage the HVAC.

You might be on to something here in terms of access to the basement of the Temple. I had been presuming that access to the basement was limited by the obscurity of its location in a huge complex along with perhaps being concealed, maybe in a closet, kind of a down the rabbit hole approach. If the place is being cleanedo by "holy servitors," it probably wouldn't occur to its human denizens that the door was even there. So the knowledge of the door's existence would be lost...

except...

we know that Father Paityr is aware of the door's existence and location-- maybe a closely guarded family secret. Add in to this your thought that the entrance is guarded by an AI demanding passwords and it would seem to me that the force of logic would suggest that the only person known to the inner circle who might be able to gain access would be Father Paityr.

This is argument from silence since we have no textev to back it up. But it certainly would have been odd of Schueler to give his family the key and the stone, tell them about the computer in the basement and how to use it to call out for help in the church's hour of deepest need and then not provide the neccessary meams of getting into the basement to start with.

Whether or not there are other keys--hinted at by textev--I think that the fact that we have nothing to infer that the Temple's current residents can access its resourses implies that they can't do so since most surely the would have marshalled the Temple's resourses against Charis and Siddarmark if that were an option available to them.

Don

SYED wrote:Question about the last bit of hte text, can someone remind me what was last happening in the northland gap?

I assume that's where Eastshare is. I think the hammer is about to drop. Hopefully he'll reach Guarnak before the Church can respond.
And, we'll get Lyonhearts insightful take, which will be better than this one.

tootall wrote:

SYED wrote:Question about the last bit of hte text, can someone remind me what was last happening in the northland gap?

I assume that's where Eastshare is. I think the hammer is about to drop. Hopefully he'll reach Guarnak before the Church can respond.
And, we'll get Lyonhearts insightful take, which will be better than this one.

No, Green Valley is in the Northland Gap. Eastshare is down in the South March, destroying Desnairian and Dohlarian armies.

No, Green Valley is in the Northland Gap. Eastshare is down in the South March, destroying Desnairian and Dohlarian armies.[/quote]



oops

n7axw wrote:

Keith_w wrote:
I am pretty sure that when they built the Temple, they arranged to build the entire thing of battle steel, even if it is covered with a façade, in which case nothing the in limited tech world which they are building is going to be able to bash those doors down. Additionally, I am sure that it is a well concealed door in the basement and if you go down there and the AI running the place doesn't recognize you, or you don't have the correct secret code, the secret doors will not open for you. I suggest that there is an AI running the place because something has to manage the HVAC.

You might be on to something here in terms of access to the basement of the Temple. I had been presuming that access to the basement was limited by the obscurity of its location in a huge complex along with perhaps being concealed, maybe in a closet, kind of a down the rabbit hole approach. If the place is being cleanedo by "holy servitors," it probably wouldn't occur to its human denizens that the door was even there. So the knowledge of the door's existence would be lost...

except...

we know that Father Paityr is aware of the door's existence and location-- maybe a closely guarded family secret. Add in to this your thought that the entrance is guarded by an AI demanding passwords and it would seem to me that the force of logic would suggest that the only person known to the inner circle who might be able to gain access would be Father Paityr.

This is argument from silence since we have no textev to back it up. But it certainly would have been odd of Schueler to give his family the key and the stone, tell them about the computer in the basement and how to use it to call out for help in the church's hour of deepest need and then not provide the neccessary meams of getting into the basement to start with.

Whether or not there are other keys--hinted at by textev--I think that the fact that we have nothing to infer that the Temple's current residents can access its resourses implies that they can't do so since most surely the would have marshalled the Temple's resourses against Charis and Siddarmark if that were an option available to them.

Don

Schuler's key may be the key to the entrance, as well as a verifier and a holder of a really really large file.

Keith_w wrote:

Schuler's key may be the key to the entrance, as well as a verifier and a holder of a really really large file.

As well as a large number of executables! Why am I not encouraged?!

The trouble with the things is that they are like fuses. Once they go off the result can be pretty uncontrollable.

Don

runsforcelery wrote:Okay, so I'm in Minneapolis for Mantycon this weekend and Sharon is making me take it very easy, so I decided to go ahead and post snippets before the convention starts Friday.

On the health front, things are looking pretty good. We will be returning from Minneapolis to Greenville on the 25th, and the pacemaker will be installed on the 27th. After that and a brief period of getting things adjusted I should be fine.

Anyone heard how RFC's going with his new plug pack?