HFQ Offical Snippet #4

Khody is said to be a ladies man, what if all the ladies he was involved with were also, his information network or support. THey could be people he helped out and owed favour from, and htey came together to aid him. THey could have been the foundation of his sisterhood.

none of the crew or those in the know would risk safe hold from being found, so i wonder just how many time capsules are buried waiting to be found.

lyonheart wrote: Hi OlorinNight,

I thought I'd welcomed you already to the cg forum, but if not feel free to enjoy your favorite cg beverage on the cg forum.

You did indeed, thanks again, i'll enjoy the pretext to have a refill...

lyonheart wrote:

OlorinNight wrote:This whole snippets thing is awful!!!

I was already suffering (deeply) over the fact that I can't stop myself from reading again and again and again AND AGAIN David Weber's books while I still have hundreds (litterally hundreds) of books that I still have to open for the first time. But know I've started to read again and agin the snippets too!! I think I'm doomed... Am I a junkie?

* Yes. Get used to it. Welcome to the club.*

Damn!!

Anyway, it's a good thing we have those snippets, I'm not sure how I would cope with the waiting without it....

And I fully join people thninking that, without any knowledge of grammar, vocabulary or other, translating the texts from Khody would be close to impossible, especially given the secrecy that has to surround it all.
Even if you get the meaning of a few words, this would not give you the meaning of the sentences, and even less of the full text. As a coding system, this one is very good as long as no one on the other side has access to federation tech or knowledge.

Remember that one of the most efficient way to crack a code is by taking note of the frequency of patterns, that you can then link to letters (or sometimes words). But you can do that only if you know WHICH language the code is in, because you need to know how frequently each letters come in that specific language.

Without this help, the task is much more difficult. And that's without taking into account that Khody may make reference to concept that safeholdians can't even grasp (if he is speaking about Federation stuff). How would you translate "satellite Platform" or "Faster-than-light interstallar travel" from spanish to English if you do not know the language and have no idea what those two thnings means even in your own language??

Thanks RFC

I love how all our speculations get turned on their head and then spun rapidly

The question is now how many times will I re-read the series before April next year ....

One might propose that someplace Kohdy has planted a series of books on reading Spanish. Eventually the books and the journal are set to be reunited, just like all the other successful conspiracies launched in 1200 AD.

phillies wrote:One might propose that someplace Kohdy has planted a series of books on reading Spanish. Eventually the books and the journal are set to be reunited, just like all the other successful conspiracies launched in 1200 AD.

One has to wonder about the coincidence of a Spanish language journal and this:

Off Armageddon Reef
October 1, 3249
The Mountains of Light,
Safehold
wrote:"The last personality recording you'd downloaded was made when you were still planning that hang-gliding expedition in the Andes," Commodore Pei's holograph reminded her. "But you never had time for the trip because, as part of my staff, you were tapped for something called 'Operation Ark.' For you to understand why we're having this conversation, I need to explain to you just what Operation Ark was . . . and why you, Kau-zhi, Shan-wei, and I set out to sabotage it."

St Zhernau(sp) left a message for Nimue/Merlin, perhaps the Spanish language portions are the "proof of identity" key for Merlin left by Kohdy? That would suggest that Kohdy was one of Shan-Wei's deprogrammed Adams or the offspring or daughter of a deprogrammed Adam & Eve.

Perhaps Seijin Kohdy isn't a corruption of Don Quixote, but of Dona Quixote?

Thrandir wrote:Thanks RFC

I love how all our speculations get turned on their head and then spun rapidly

The question is now how many times will I re-read the series before April next year ....

I've been reading and rereading Weber for 20 years I just dicovered the forums 6 months ago. What still astonishes me is how participating in the forums has shifted my perspective on what I read. Its almost like they become new books.

On Nynian, the thing that is making Merlin and the inner circle --as well as all of us---uncomfortable is that this is the first time someone has figured out enough to approach Merlin with prior knowledge and not the other way around. It represents loss of control. I think that they have to learn to cope. This could happen again. Jeremiah Knowles and his family are only ones of Shanwei's re-educated Adams and Eves we have accounted for and there were over 200. Further, we don't know that Shanwei was the only one re-educating.

As for Nynian herself, it's hard to see that have any choice but to bring her in. I wonder how learning a more complete version of the truth will impact her faith.

Don

Weird Harold wrote:

phillies wrote:One might propose that someplace Kohdy has planted a series of books on reading Spanish. Eventually the books and the journal are set to be reunited, just like all the other successful conspiracies launched in 1200 AD.

One has to wonder about the coincidence of a Spanish language journal and this:

Off Armageddon Reef
October 1, 3249
The Mountains of Light,
Safehold
wrote:"The last personality recording you'd downloaded was made when you were still planning that hang-gliding expedition in the Andes," Commodore Pei's holograph reminded her. "But you never had time for the trip because, as part of my staff, you were tapped for something called 'Operation Ark.' For you to understand why we're having this conversation, I need to explain to you just what Operation Ark was . . . and why you, Kau-zhi, Shan-wei, and I set out to sabotage it."

St Zhernau(sp) left a message for Nimue/Merlin, perhaps the Spanish language portions are the "proof of identity" key for Merlin left by Kohdy? That would suggest that Kohdy was one of Shan-Wei's deprogrammed Adams or the offspring or daughter of a deprogrammed Adam & Eve.

Perhaps Seijin Kohdy isn't a corruption of Don Quixote, but of Dona Quixote?

If it was a daughter, could that be an explanation for Kohdy's memory being officially attacked by the church?

Don

n7axw wrote:If it was a daughter, could that be an explanation for Kohdy's memory being officially attacked by the church?

Don

Possibly. It might explain why the primary keeper of Kohdy's legacy is a sisterhood, too.

=2014/09/04=

Yeah -- but it is to get us to speculate that you restrict the information you give us !!!

R
.

runsforcelery wrote:

Henry Brown wrote:The idea of writing in Spanish to conceal his thoughts doesn't really make that much sense. At least for the time of Seijin Kohdy. Think about it, Kohdy living during a period where the archangels were still around. They had Federation tech. So had his journal fallen into the wrong hands during his lifetime, they would have easily been able to translate the Spanish parts using a computer.

The only way it makes sense to me is if he was trying to conceal information from later generations. Maybe whatever he wrote was something he didn't think people were ready to hear at the time. So he wrote it in Spanish. Since it is an unknown language on Safehold, then it would be virtually impossible to read. Only somebody with some knowledge of the Federation or with access to technology would be able to translate those portions of his diary.

Actually, it makes plenty of sense. You just don't yet know why it does.

And the people who are saying "Gee whiz, surely they could have figured out something as simple as a foreign language' are way underestimating the difficulties in figuring out how to translate another language when the only one in existence (aside from the limited sections of a single document) is English. Different grammar, different verb forms, different sentence structure, different idiom, etc. Don't assume there were bunches of proper nouns which could provide cognates, at least for names, either.

You guys are doing an awful lot of speculating on a very limited information base at the moment.

Just saying.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:If it was a daughter, could that be an explanation for Kohdy's memory being officially attacked by the church?

Don

Possibly. It might explain why the primary keeper of Kohdy's legacy is a sisterhood, too.

Let's see now....

Khody was a womanizer and also had a reputation for enjoying earthy pleasures. Somewhere someone charactertized him as a "marine on shore leave". Furthermore, he obviously had access to technology or he wouldn't have been called a seijin. Nynian called him a saint and a seijin. That means he was at most an Adam. Yet he speaks spanish.

It strikes me that either Khody was reeducated or he was a low level crew member that was never reprogrammed. I am leaning towards the latter. He followed orders about he needed to do regarding the succession wars (War of the Fallen), but he never enmbraced Bedard's religion. He behaved in ways that was inconsistent with the moral teachings of the CoG and later CoGA. That alone would have earned him banishment from the church's list of approved saints. He was after all NOT an adherent of the CoG and CoGA teachings.

So this marine private makes a name for himself by following orders given to him by his superiors. Those superiors need his skill after Commodore Pei's pocket nuke gutted a goodly chunk of the crew. Problem was that this private never truly embraced actually living as Bedard's religion would have him live. Given his proclivities, he likely worked with a largely female team. That team likely became the core of Nynian's Sisterhood. Since the CoG and CoGA never really emphasized sexual abstinance, Khody's and perhaps later the Sisterhood's acceptance of free sexual expression was viewed more as slightly odd than anathema. That oddity became less acceptable after the war was won. This explains why his name was removed from the list of saints.

If Khody was part of the colony's crew, he would have been long lived. That means he would have been able to train generations of team members during the War of the Fallen. The training program could have been institutionalized well before his death and might well have continued in the form of a pseudo-religious order that became a truly religious one in time.

Nynian's sisterhood then was born in war and tempered by centuries of hiding from the intolerant attention of the Inquisition. Its guiding principles are those from someone who isn't blinded by a doctrine that is onconsistent with reality. The Writ's description of physics are as far removed from reality as anything on Safehold. Such a group as hers cannot be blind to reality or it would have been discovered ages ago. So, Nynian's group is likely one of the handful of organizations that have been trained to first assume nothing and then begin to think through problems.

So, yes, trust her enough to tell her the truth. Problem is that if she doesn't agree with your conclusions or at least many of her leadership group agrees with your conclusions, they can be a truly formidable opponent. The saving grace if her group doesn't agree with Merlin et al is that they will act separately from the CoGA. They will become the CoGA's own pseudo-seijins if not seijins in relaity. We don't know their true capabilities after all. That prospect would be a joy to read about.