After the truth has been revealed...

Isilith wrote:Yeah, that would be beyond stupid. It would be insane, to the level of suicidally insane, to hand out future tech to empires like Desnair/Harchong.

Gee, let's equal out everyones tech, so that we can have a huge war and destroy safehold, or possibly end up their slaves, or back in the stone age. Yeah, that would be brilliant.

There is no way you can tell everyone, and hand out that level of tech, without a functioning world government. Or at least world wide alliance.

P.S. There won't be anything remotely like a functioning world government in 20 years.

P.P.S. Pretty sure the "tell everyone" was speculation about the millennial return. Even that was a "if we have to", not a "this is the plan". Nor do I remember "give out free tech tickets" even being suggested.

P.P.P.S. Did anyone else just have a nightmare thinking about totalitarian regimes, like Harchong and Desnair, with TF level tech? Talk about slavery.

SWM wrote:

Isilith wrote:Yeah, that would be beyond stupid. It would be insane, to the level of suicidally insane, to hand out future tech to empires like Desnair/Harchong.

Gee, let's equal out everyones tech, so that we can have a huge war and destroy safehold, or possibly end up their slaves, or back in the stone age. Yeah, that would be brilliant.

There is no way you can tell everyone, and hand out that level of tech, without a functioning world government. Or at least world wide alliance.

P.S. There won't be anything remotely like a functioning world government in 20 years.

P.P.S. Pretty sure the "tell everyone" was speculation about the millennial return. Even that was a "if we have to", not a "this is the plan". Nor do I remember "give out free tech tickets" even being suggested.

P.P.P.S. Did anyone else just have a nightmare thinking about totalitarian regimes, like Harchong and Desnair, with TF level tech? Talk about slavery.

The Truth being revealed comes from statements from RFC. The rest of it was my own opinion. I believe that once The Truth is revealed, you cannot justify withholding the technology. "Yes, we've just told you that there is technology to heal your children, feed the starving masses, and teach you instantly. No, you can't have it."

I don't think Merlin could justify that to himself, so I believe that the tech will be released once the world is convinced of The Truth.

I also think that The Truth would result in the downfall of those totalitarian regimes, if they had not already been destroyed by the lead-up to the revelation. That's my opinion of what will happen, anyway.

n7axw wrote:

AClone wrote:I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if there is an advanced tech enclave started somewhere deserted--like, say, Armageddon Reef, where people who have been raised with the implants can study and advance prior to the entire populace being given advance TF level tech. Kind of elitism, I suppose, but someone has to get a head start, and boot strap everyone else up.

Probably not Armageddon Reef. That place was pasted to oblivion by the OBS.

I wouldn't be surprised to find another one under a mountain someplace though.

Don

n7axw wrote: quote="SWM" quote="Isilith"
Yeah, that would be beyond stupid. It would be insane, to the level of suicidally insane, to hand out future tech to empires like Desnair/Harchong.

Gee, let's equal out everyones tech, so that we can have a huge war and destroy safehold, or possibly end up their slaves, or back in the stone age. Yeah, that would be brilliant.

There is no way you can tell everyone, and hand out that level of tech, without a functioning world government. Or at least world wide alliance.

P.S. There won't be anything remotely like a functioning world government in 20 years.

P.P.S. Pretty sure the "tell everyone" was speculation about the millennial return. Even that was a "if we have to", not a "this is the plan". Nor do I remember "give out free tech tickets" even being suggested.

P.P.P.S. Did anyone else just have a nightmare thinking about totalitarian regimes, like Harchong and Desnair, with TF level tech? Talk about slavery. /quote
The Truth being revealed comes from statements from RFC. The rest of it was my own opinion. I believe that once The Truth is revealed, you cannot justify withholding the technology. "Yes, we've just told you that there is technology to heal your children, feed the starving masses, and teach you instantly. No, you can't have it."

I don't think Merlin could justify that to himself, so I believe that the tech will be released once the world is convinced of The Truth.

I also think that The Truth would result in the downfall of those totalitarian regimes, if they had not already been destroyed by the lead-up to the revelation. That's my opinion of what will happen, anyway. /quote

Hi SWM,

I guess I come at it from the other direction. I don't think that an awareness of the truth entitles anyone to the technology. In short, it can't be handed out on a silver platter. It has to be earned.

What that means is that there must be acceptance of the scientific method and the notion of progressive change. People on Safehold must be involved and invested in that process of change and discovery. What you get if that doesn't happen is a situation where the tech is floating around in the midst of people who are not equiped to work with it or improve upon it.

In fact even where the criteria I mentioned above are met, not everyone on Safehold will be involved with it or even approving of it which will breed anti-modernity movements even more destructive than the ones we've seen on old earth in our own timeline. And if people start acquiring the fruits of technology without having been involved in its development, the consequences will be even worse.

What it boils down to is that progress can be hastened to a limited extent. But the process of social change cannot be short cutted without results that could well be catastrophic.

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi SWM,

I guess I come at it from the other direction. I don't think that an awareness of the truth entitles anyone to the technology. In short, it can't be handed out on a silver platter. It has to be earned.

What that means is that there must be acceptance of the scientific method and the notion of progressive change. People on Safehold must be involved and invested in that process of change and discovery. What you get if that doesn't happen is a situation where the tech is floating around in the midst of people who are not equiped to work with it or improve upon it.

In fact even where the criteria I mentioned above are met, not everyone on Safehold will be involved with it or even approving of it which will breed anti-modernity movements even more destructive than the ones we've seen on old earth in our own timeline. And if people start acquiring the fruits of technology without having been involved in its development, the consequences will be even worse.

What it boils down to is that progress can be hastened to a limited extent. But the process of social change cannot be short cutted without results that could well be catastrophic.

Don

AClone wrote:I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if there is an advanced tech enclave started somewhere deserted--like, say, Armageddon Reef, where people who have been raised with the implants can study and advance prior to the entire populace being given advance TF level tech. Kind of elitism, I suppose, but someone has to get a head start, and boot strap everyone else up.

Isilith wrote:Sort of off topic, but I wonder what natural resources are on, or on the continent nearby, the location of Armageddon Reef. I see Shan-Wei putting the Alexandra Enclave where it was at for a reason.

SWM wrote:

Oh, don't disagree at all. Please note that in my previous posts I specifically said (emphasis added):

"If a spirit of innovation has been properly instilled by then, and the Rakurai has been neutralized, I don't think there is any problem in letting people start using the designs from OWL."

"the tech will be released once the world is convinced of The Truth."

I just happen believe that those conditions will be met. And once they are met, I don't think there is any justification in withholding the technology. I also believe it would be the fastest way to defeating the Gbaba.

SWM wrote:Don,

I think you are misunderstanding the point of my post. I agree in a number of ways with you (though not completely). I don't think advanced technology should be given away to those who don't believe The Truth or don't want tech. What I was trying to say was this: I believe that shortly after The Truth is revealed, conditions will be such that it WILL be possible and even necessary to spread advanced technology widely.

I'm not saying tech should be given out whether or not people want it or are ready for it. I'm saying that many people will want it and will be ready for it. IMHO.

I know that there will still be problems with it, and could even be wars. But once The Truth is widely accepted, I don't think you can justify not giving the tech out.