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Penicillin?

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Re: Penicillin?
Post by Greyman   » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:02 am

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captinjoehenry wrote:
Duckk wrote:Guys, spoilers.


I am not sure what you mean but if this should have spoiler in the title please say so and I will do so.
Duckk's means don't mention organisations introduced in the last book.



Like the [spoiler]Sisters of Saint Khody[/spoiler]
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by captinjoehenry   » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:04 am

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Greyman wrote:
captinjoehenry wrote:

<snip>

I am not sure what you mean but if this should have spoiler in the title please say so and I will do so.
Duckk's means don't mention organisations introduced in the last book.



Like the [spoiler]Sisters of Saint Khody[/spoiler]


Thanks
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:23 pm

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If they don't have vaccinations now then Charis can introduce a huge and provable public health benefit.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by FreeTrav   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:03 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:If they don't have vaccinations now then Charis can introduce a huge and provable public health benefit.

Don't so sure of that. Remember, Safehold is a [partially] terraformed world; it's unlikely that the native bugs can bother humans (and vice-versa), plus there's the long tradition of adherence to the injunctions of Pasquale. The population of Safehold is probably healthier - a lot healthier - than was the norm for Earth societies during the period where those societies were generally at technological par with what we're seeing on Safehold. That Pasquale's injunctions are couched in the language of "do this or be cursed" rather than "do this because not doing it allows disease bugs to breed" isn't actually relevant; what's relevant is that they follow them.

Do we actually have textev for any diseases that inoculation can prevent?

Development of antibiotics won't be a bad thing; I seem to recall that a lot of the infections that occur following injuries are actually from nasties that we carry around with us - but even there, I suspect that there are ultimately fewer of those than were on Earth.

(I should note that the truth value of my suppositions above will vary depending on how much of native Safehold life is edible and nutritious to humans; the more there is (thus the higher the level of Terran/Safehold compatibility), the more likely it is that humans will be edible/nutritious to native Safehold life, including microbial life, and therefore the more likely that inoculable diseases will exist.)
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by Keith_w   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:05 pm

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FreeTrav wrote:(I should note that the truth value of my suppositions above will vary depending on how much of native Safehold life is edible and nutritious to humans; the more there is (thus the higher the level of Terran/Safehold compatibility), the more likely it is that humans will be edible/nutritious to native Safehold life, including microbial life, and therefore the more likely that inoculable diseases will exist.)

In OAR, it is mentioned that wyvern eggs are edible and wyverns and chickens cannot be kept together because chickens are edible.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:39 pm

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I rather suspect that fleming moss is basically penicillin - given that penicillin was discovered by Alexander Fleming.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by cralkhi   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:49 am

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Keith_w wrote:In OAR, it is mentioned that wyvern eggs are edible and wyverns and chickens cannot be kept together because chickens are edible.


Safeholdian spider crabs are also edible & a delicacy.

OTOH people need terraformed land so it seems you can't live on Safeholdian life alone.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by Expert snuggler   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:35 am

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There was textev that communicable diseases start spreading whenever society breaks down and the laws of Pasquale are no longer followed, uh, religiously.

Why there are pathogens is a question I don't have an answer to, though there are good suggestions upthread. How long does it take a new one to evolve, anyway, with a generation every 30 minutes?

Bioweapons would have been a poor choice for the War Against the Fallen, so that's not a likely origin for pathogens.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by Tenshinai   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:11 am

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Highjohn wrote:The rationalization that evolution has done this doesn't work. We have had millions(or billions, or if you just count our species at least 100,000 years) of years to evolve the current selection of viruses and bacteria we have now. Evolving a comparable set in 750 years(see Nimue wake up scene) just isn't probable.


Eh, why do you think seasonal influensa vaccines keep having to be remade so often? Sometimes even more than once a year?

Because new strains can and do appear all the time.


#####

EdThomas wrote:Wouldn't they first have to come up with germs. I don't know if Pasqual (sp?) goes that far.


No, they just need to know that it works. There´s still lots of medicine today that noone truly knows exactly how it works against some diseases. Especially those that are synthesised versions of old "natural" medicines.

Just as an example, a lot of medication against allergies can affect mood, but not for everyone and for some people it might even change on a daily basis if their mood is affected by a specific medicine. And exactly why that is, well they basically know that the medications do this or that, but also that those effects by itself mostly does not affect mood, so there´s secondary effects, and tertiary effects and farfetched sideeffects etc etc...

But the medication works, so most patients get to have fun and experiment to see if they can find a medication that does not affect their mood too much.
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Re: Penicillin?
Post by cralkhi   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:55 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:
Highjohn wrote:The rationalization that evolution has done this doesn't work. We have had millions(or billions, or if you just count our species at least 100,000 years) of years to evolve the current selection of viruses and bacteria we have now. Evolving a comparable set in 750 years(see Nimue wake up scene) just isn't probable.


Eh, why do you think seasonal influensa vaccines keep having to be remade so often? Sometimes even more than once a year?

Because new strains can and do appear all the time.



Well, sure, but these are mutations of a virus that is already causing human disease.

Totally new diseases jumping to humans generally come from pathogens of other mammals... occasionally from birds.

So if the Operation Ark people had removed all pathogens from the people and livestock they brought... that's an entirely different picture.

Maybe something could evolve from previously harmless human bacteria... but there still shouldn't be much.
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