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Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)

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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Kakai   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:59 am

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I'd expect that following the reveal, four groups would form:
- atheists, probably in the vein of "if our religion is false, then all others can be too";
- rabid loyalists, who'd just flat out refuse to believe the "heathens" and continue believing in the lie.
- mild believers, who'd find their own way to religion and would stay religious despite knowing and believing the truth. Either in a form of reformed CoGA or as something completely different.
Those overlap with your 1, 2 and 4, but I'd also guess this:
- militaristic believers who'd believe that God kept them safe so that they can go and kill the real demons (i.e. Gbaba). They might push for innovation, train relentlessly and, in further future, form a majority of armies. This might turn ugly if they come to believe that government(s) don't want to go to the war immediately.
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When in mortal danger, when beset by doubt,
Run in little circles, wave your arms and shout.
- Ciaphas Cain
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by BobG   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 am

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Dilandu wrote:How? There is no "protestant" genes or "catholic" genes.

You might want to check out the PBS show "Finding Your Roots" which talks about "Decoding Our Past Through DNA."

-- Bob G
SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:45 am

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BobG wrote:You might want to check out the PBS show "Finding Your Roots" which talks about "Decoding Our Past Through DNA."

-- Bob G



I'm graduated geneticist. Plant geneticist, must admit.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:51 pm

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gcomeau wrote:

In a rational world there would me a massive outbreak of atheism.

Why do you say that?

~Tonto
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Reptide   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:50 pm

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I think they dont go with great reveal just after they blow rakurai. Why? if they tell truth immediately after win they have another war in no time. no i think maikel going with some theology changes witch in right time make truth much more acceptable. why i think it i start think about that after LaMA October: Year of God 896 XVII

“No,” Staynair corrected in that same gentle tone. “He proclaimed the Holy Writ inerrant, and he proclaimed the Grand Vicar infallible when he spoke from Langhorne’s own throne in accordance with the Writ and God’s will. That’s an important qualification, you know—in accordance with the Writ and God’s will—because the Writ itself teaches that even Archangels proved fallible and corruptible in the end, does it not? If Archangels can fall into the sin of setting their own wills, their own desires, before those of God, then surely a mere mortal, even the Grand Vicar—or those who control him—can do the same. And when that happens, he doesn’t speak in accordance with God’s will.”


why it so interesting? Maikal basicly say angels are humans, they can fall to evil, and i think idia behind Maikal reform is Schular fight to evil so long he start hate and in that moment he fall. So all his work become wokr of evil etc...
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“Well, that’s hardly his fault,” Merlin replied, slightly surprised by his own almost defensive tone. “He was designed as a fire control system, and the Navy didn’t want its weapons systems to have too much imagination.”
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:11 pm

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Tonto Silerheels wrote:gcomeau wrote:

In a rational world there would me a massive outbreak of atheism.

Why do you say that?

~Tonto


Why, in a rational world, would a population of people once they were shown to have been deceived into believing their ancestors were magically poofed into existence a few generations back then reasonably start questioning how rational it is exactly to believe the universe was created by a magic-powered super being nobody ever sees or can really explain in any logically consistent manner?


I always have difficulty processing how anyone could really be seriously asking me anything like that... it's a little like a grown adult walking up to you and asking you with a straight face, bewilderment in their tone, why people would doubt the existence of Santa and his flying reindeer.


I mean, besides the obvious?
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:44 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
Tonto Silerheels wrote:gcomeau wrote:

In a rational world there would me a massive outbreak of atheism.

Why do you say that?

~Tonto


Why, in a rational world, would a population of people once they were shown to have been deceived into believing their ancestors were magically poofed into existence a few generations back then reasonably start questioning how rational it is exactly to believe the universe was created by a magic-powered super being nobody ever sees or can really explain in any logically consistent manner?


I always have difficulty processing how anyone could really be seriously asking me anything like that... it's a little like a grown adult walking up to you and asking you with a straight face, bewilderment in their tone, why people would doubt the existence of Santa and his flying reindeer.


I mean, besides the obvious?


There are lots of people who think your way. My comment would be that rationality has its limits and is only as good as the presuppositions that underlie it. When those presupositions turn out to be wrong, logic becomes a way of being wrong with confidence. Further, it only deals with a fraction of human experience.

Logic usually isn't how we arrive at our commitments. Show me someone's commitments, that is, the thing that in the gut that person believes, and I will show you the master into whose service logic is placed.

As for the choice between believing in God or not, my own experience is that it is usually an emotional and always a spiritual choice not to believe, or for that matter to believe. There are folk who make the choice intellectually. But far more often, folk are not rejecting the idea of a God, per se. They are rather repelled and disgusted with the picture of the God to whom they been introduced, and offended by the behavior of those us who claim to represent him.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:32 pm

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gcomeau wrote:

I always have difficulty processing how anyone could really be seriously asking me anything like that... it's a little like a grown adult walking up to you and asking you with a straight face, bewilderment in their tone, why people would doubt the existence of Santa and his flying reindeer.

I see. Well, the reason I ask is that it has always seemed to me that people choose a minimalist approach to assimilating new information. For example, modern theories of cosmology a few decades ago suggested that the uniformity of the universe was a certain amount. When observations were made, however, it was found that the universe was far more uniform than was possible with those theories. If rational people react as you state then they would have to completely throw out the big bang theory and choose some opposite theory. Instead, a number of cosmologists have endeavored to repair big bang by theorizing that at a certain time after the beginning the universe started to expand very rapidly. And by "very rapidly" I'm talking about Douglas Noel Adams levels of rapidly. The diameter of the universe had to expand much faster than the speed of light for this theory to be able to explain the uniformity. After a certain amount of time the expansion had to slow down to presently observed levels of expansion. This theory was called "inflation" and is currently the forerunner amongst cosmologists.

So, instead of abandoning a clearly broken cosmology, cosmologists chose to postulate a number of never-before-observed phenomena in order to keep it. Universe expansions have never been observed to accelerate rapidly or decelerate rapidly. Nothing has been observed to exceed the speed of light.

Since that time other deficiencies have been found with the standard model, and other unobserved phenomena have been proposed to explain it. Thus we now have dark matter, dark energy, symmetry breaking, etc.

So I'm forced to accept one of two unpalatable alternatives, either you are incorrect about Safeholdians' belief in God, or cosmologists are not rational people.

And this is entirely separate from the point that we are discussing a fictional universe invented by author David Weber. Regardless of the origin of our universe, and on that point we may wish to choose to disagree, it's quite probable that Weber's universe was created by god.

~Tonto
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:45 pm

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n7axw wrote:

My comment would be that rationality has its limits...

I would have to agree. If you like pithy quotes you might like this one:

I think sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it. Anonymous


~Tonto
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Re: Religion After the Big Reveal (Speculation)
Post by SWM   » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:34 pm

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Now, be fair, folks. Gcomeau originally said:
In a rational world there would me a massive outbreak of atheism.


In a human world [. . .]

So he already acknowledged that people do not actually behave rationally. You might argue over whether a rational world would be atheistic, but there's no reason to argue with him that people don't behave rationally when he already said that in the beginning.
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