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Is Clyntahn an atheist?

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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by DirkF   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:30 am

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Clyntahn cannot be an atheist - no one outside the inner circle can be an atheist on safehold.
There was even an text sequence explaining to the one person of the inner circle considering himself to have become an atheist that he had to look up the explanation in a federation book to even understand what atheism is.

"Atheism" means that the person believes that no gods exist - but on safehold the entire population knows for a fact that god exists, proven by the existance of the main temple, dozens of artefacts that cannot have been made by mortal means and thousands of experience reports and books of mortals who have met and talked to the archangels.

Therefore all safeholdians might disagree with some ideas that were supposed to be given by god, and they can agree or disagree with the church, but they cannot deny the existance of god - it's simply not possible in their frame of reference.

Clyntahn knows that god exists and will judge everyones soul after their death - he is just delusional in believing that his version of everything is what god wants.
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by n7axw   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:01 pm

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DirkF wrote:Clyntahn cannot be an atheist - no one outside the inner circle can be an atheist on safehold.
There was even an text sequence explaining to the one person of the inner circle considering himself to have become an atheist that he had to look up the explanation in a federation book to even understand what atheism is.

"Atheism" means that the person believes that no gods exist - but on safehold the entire population knows for a fact that god exists, proven by the existance of the main temple, dozens of artefacts that cannot have been made by mortal means and thousands of experience reports and books of mortals who have met and talked to the archangels.

Therefore all safeholdians might disagree with some ideas that were supposed to be given by god, and they can agree or disagree with the church, but they cannot deny the existance of god - it's simply not possible in their frame of reference.

Clyntahn knows that god exists and will judge everyones soul after their death - he is just delusional in believing that his version of everything is what god wants.


I agree with your point, although sometimes logic is a way of being wrong with confidence. One could probably make a case for Clyntahn bein a a functional atheist who doesn't believe God's rules apply to him even though as a doctrinal theist he would cheerfully send anyone who denied God's existance to the punishment.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by TN4994   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:17 pm

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n7axw wrote:
DirkF wrote:Clyntahn cannot be an atheist - no one outside the inner circle can be an atheist on safehold.
There was even an text sequence explaining to the one person of the inner circle considering himself to have become an atheist that he had to look up the explanation in a federation book to even understand what atheism is.

"Atheism" means that the person believes that no gods exist - but on safehold the entire population knows for a fact that god exists, proven by the existance of the main temple, dozens of artefacts that cannot have been made by mortal means and thousands of experience reports and books of mortals who have met and talked to the archangels.

Therefore all safeholdians might disagree with some ideas that were supposed to be given by god, and they can agree or disagree with the church, but they cannot deny the existance of god - it's simply not possible in their frame of reference.

Clyntahn knows that god exists and will judge everyones soul after their death - he is just delusional in believing that his version of everything is what god wants.


I agree with your point, although sometimes logic is a way of being wrong with confidence. One could probably make a case for Clyntahn bein a a functional atheist who doesn't believe God's rules apply to him even though as a doctrinal theist he would cheerfully send anyone who denied God's existance to the punishment.

Don

Insane theocract. Definitely believes in a god.
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:27 pm

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n7axw wrote:snip

I agree with your point, although sometimes logic is a way of being wrong with confidence. One could probably make a case for Clyntahn bein a a functional atheist who doesn't believe God's rules apply to him even though as a doctrinal theist he would cheerfully send anyone who denied God's existance to the punishment.

Don

Isn't there somewhere in one of the books where Rayno speculates that Clyntahn believes that God will forgive his minor lapses because of his great diligence in defending God?
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by John Prigent   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:29 pm

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Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by n7axw   » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:13 pm

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John Prigent wrote:Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John


Wouldn't it be hilarious if sometime Clyntahn were to experience a "born again" style conversion? Use you imagination to fill in the blanks of that!!!

It would sure be a tail twister in terms of plot development, wouldn't it? :lol:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by TN4994   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:05 am

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n7axw wrote:
John Prigent wrote:Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John


Wouldn't it be hilarious if sometime Clyntahn were to experience a "born again" style conversion? Use you imagination to fill in the blanks of that!!!

It would sure be a tail twister in terms of plot development, wouldn't it? :lol:

Don

Something keyed to a near-death experience?
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:28 am

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TN4994 wrote:
John Prigent wrote:Of course Clyntahn believes in God. He believes he IS God.
Cheers
John

n7axw wrote:Wouldn't it be hilarious if sometime Clyntahn were to experience a "born again" style conversion? Use you imagination to fill in the blanks of that!!!

It would sure be a tail twister in terms of plot development, wouldn't it? :lol:

Don

Something keyed to a near-death experience?

Just had a thought on this. Is it possible to have a SNARC remote that generates sound? If so, move one into Clyntahn's ear, and then have "God start talking to him". Might just drive him crazier.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by TN4994   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:41 am

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Merlin is hesitant to use SNARCs in the Temple, and Clyntahn appears to be an Agoraphobe.
But the idea would be great applied to a Bishop in command of one of the Armies or Navies. Or the old Emperor of Harchong."
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Re: Is Clyntahn an atheist?
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:02 am

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TN4994 wrote:Merlin is hesitant to use SNARCs in the Temple, and Clyntahn appears to be an Agoraphobe.
But the idea would be great applied to a Bishop in command of one of the Armies or Navies. Or the old Emperor of Harchong."

True enough, but Rayno comes out. Do it to him, and convince him his only path to salvation is to kill Clyntahn. Also Clyntahn comes out into the central plaza for his auto-de-fes and you might be able to get him then.
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The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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