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n7axw wrote:

EdThomas wrote:Some clarifications...
We will have 2,3 if Hanth is operating on his own, operating in the Temple Boys home turf. There is the definite possibility that 1 or 2 of these armies will become involved with MHoG armies of two or three hundred thousand men who have been trained by experienced COGA officers and NCOs. The lead units of these armies will most likely be armed with St Khylman's breechloaders.

I really don't see where the COGA comes up with all the officers and noncoms to train the Harchongese. Most of the COGA's surviving experienced officers are still with the Army of the Glacierheart or in the Sylvan Gap.

Then too, how much experience does the Army of God really have? It was basicly a new organization prior to its attack on Siddarmark. After they started out encountering units armed with modern rifles and artillery, their experience has been pretty grim. Conceeding that adversity can be a more effective teacher than success, it's obvious that the AOG still hasn't any idea how to beat COGA armies.

As for the St Klymans, by spring they will be facing M96 repeating rifles and breech loading cannon. Won't they have fun then...

Don

Don't most of the Harchcongese army is made of serfs ? Then there is a number of overseers to go along and fit badly in the role of noncoms. Officers will be a problem as the noblemen's will want to be cavalry and they don't trust common rabble to officer the infantry.

Hi Alj_SF,

Despite the limited experience and combat record of the AoG against any enemy with equal weapons being abysmal, those officers and NCO's have spent far more time training with the modern weapons than the IHA, so they do have something to teach, but primarily the basic soldier values described in February 897 YoG in LaMA, that are critical to creating a cohesive organization that can actually fight.

We still don't know what the IHA's/MHoGatA TO&E is to see how many officers and NCO's it has, but the AoG was about a third it's planned size, and I suspect has a much tighter ratio of supervision, so it could have almost as many as the whole MHoGatA, NTM the 20% spares Magwair insisted on.

If almost 90% are serfs, it can be a problem, as the near illiteracy mentioned can ruin attempts to 'get everyone on the same sheet of music' , ie working towards the same objective.

The point that the ICA still has much to teach the AoG and Go4 armies is an excellent one as RFC has reminded us in the text.

L

alj_sf wrote:

n7axw wrote:*quote="EdThomas"*Some clarifications...
We will have 2,3 if Hanth is operating on his own, operating in the Temple Boys home turf. There is the definite possibility that 1 or 2 of these armies will become involved with MHoG armies of two or three hundred thousand men who have been trained by experienced COGA officers and NCOs. The lead units of these armies will most likely be armed with St Khylman's breechloaders.
*quote*

I really don't see where the COGA comes up with all the officers and noncoms to train the Harchongese. Most of the COGA's surviving experienced officers are still with the Army of the Glacierheart or in the Sylvan Gap.

Then too, how much experience does the Army of God really have? It was basicly a new organization prior to its attack on Siddarmark. After they started out encountering units armed with modern rifles and artillery, their experience has been pretty grim. Conceeding that adversity can be a more effective teacher than success, it's obvious that the AOG still hasn't any idea how to beat COGA armies.

As for the St Klymans, by spring they will be facing M96 repeating rifles and breech loading cannon. Won't they have fun then...

Don

Don't most of the Harchcongese army is made of serfs ? Then there is a number of overseers to go along and fit badly in the role of noncoms. Officers will be a problem as the noblemen's will want to be cavalry and they don't trust common rabble to officer the infantry.

The point is that morale and cohesion will rely a lot on those NCOs, and I doubt ICA can gives enough. The overseers can be a stop gap, but a bad one, and the bloated IHA will be about useless if not led correctly as it will be far than nimble. Yes, they can learn, but will do they fast enough, especially with bad morale and probable lack of food ?

lyonheart wrote:Hi Alj_SF,

Despite the limited experience and combat record of the AoG against any enemy with equal weapons being abysmal, those officers and NCO's have spent far more time training with the modern weapons than the IHA, so they do have something to teach, but primarily the basic soldier values described in February 897 YoG in LaMA, that are critical to creating a cohesive organization that can actually fight.

We still don't know what the IHA's/MHoGatA TO&E is to see how many officers and NCO's it has, but the AoG was about a third it's planned size, and I suspect has a much tighter ratio of supervision, so it could have almost as many as the whole MHoGatA, NTM the 20% spares Magwair insisted on.

If almost 90% are serfs, it can be a problem, as the near illiteracy mentioned can ruin attempts to 'get everyone on the same sheet of music' , ie working towards the same objective.

The point that the ICA still has much to teach the AoG and Go4 armies is an excellent one as RFC has reminded us in the text.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Alj_SF,

Despite the limited experience and combat record of the AoG against any enemy with equal weapons being abysmal, those officers and NCO's have spent far more time training with the modern weapons than the IHA, so they do have something to teach, but primarily the basic soldier values described in February 897 YoG in LaMA, that are critical to creating a cohesive organization that can actually fight.

We still don't know what the IHA's/MHoGatA TO&E is to see how many officers and NCO's it has, but the AoG was about a third it's planned size, and I suspect has a much tighter ratio of supervision, so it could have almost as many as the whole MHoGatA, NTM the 20% spares Magwair insisted on.

my bolding
Lyonheart hits the nail on the head. NCOs know how to soldier. Someone mentioned the pike troops Wyrshym had sent back. THese will serve as an excellent source of experieced NCOs. Hospitals returning NCOs and Officers to duty are another source. The Republic did a pretty good job in rebuilding their pike army into a rifle army. You might find the first chapter, February 897 LAMA interesting.

EdThomas wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Alj_SF,

Despite the limited experience and combat record of the AoG against any enemy with equal weapons being abysmal, those officers and NCO's have spent far more time training with the modern weapons than the IHA, so they do have something to teach, but primarily the basic soldier values described in February 897 YoG in LaMA, that are critical to creating a cohesive organization that can actually fight.

We still don't know what the IHA's/MHoGatA TO&E is to see how many officers and NCO's it has, but the AoG was about a third it's planned size, and I suspect has a much tighter ratio of supervision, so it could have almost as many as the whole MHoGatA, NTM the 20% spares Magwair insisted on.

my bolding
Lyonheart hits the nail on the head. NCOs know how to soldier. Someone mentioned the pike troops Wyrshym had sent back. THese will serve as an excellent source of experieced NCOs. Hospitals returning NCOs and Officers to duty are another source. The Republic did a pretty good job in rebuilding their pike army into a rifle army. You might find the first chapter, February 897 LAMA interesting.

No doubt there are going to be some. But the AOG was about 250,000 at its largest and we are talking about 800,000 Harchongese. Even if all the AOG noncoms from those armies were available which they are not, you'd still have a pretty serious shortfall.

Those ncos and officers from the pike regiments will have to be retrained for rifles. But you are right. They can impart the basic skills and discipline of soldiering and that shouldn't be underestimated.

Don

Hi Don,

From MTaT and RFC's prior posts, we learned the AoG was 500,000 strong while the initial strength of the IHA was 1.5 M.

If you check the Desnari TO&E, the cavalry regiment has more than 3 times the NCO's and officers than the infantry, I suspect the original IHA was much worse.

L

n7axw wrote:

EdThomas wrote:*quote="lyonheart"*Hi Alj_SF,

Despite the limited experience and combat record of the AoG against any enemy with equal weapons being abysmal, those officers and NCO's have spent far more time training with the modern weapons than the IHA, so they do have something to teach, but primarily the basic soldier values described in February 897 YoG in LaMA, that are critical to creating a cohesive organization that can actually fight.

We still don't know what the IHA's/MHoGatA TO&E is to see how many officers and NCO's it has, but the AoG was about a third it's planned size, and I suspect has a much tighter ratio of supervision, so it could have almost as many as the whole MHoGatA, NTM the 20% spares Magwair insisted on.
*quote*
my bolding
Lyonheart hits the nail on the head. NCOs know how to soldier. Someone mentioned the pike troops Wyrshym had sent back. THese will serve as an excellent source of experieced NCOs. Hospitals returning NCOs and Officers to duty are another source. The Republic did a pretty good job in rebuilding their pike army into a rifle army. You might find the first chapter, February 897 LAMA interesting.

No doubt there are going to be some. But the AOG was about 250,000 at its largest and we are talking about 800,000 Harchongese. Even if all the AOG noncoms from those armies were available which they are not, you'd still have a pretty serious shortfall.

Those ncos and officers from the pike regiments will have to be retrained for rifles. But you are right. They can impart the basic skills and discipline of soldiering and that shouldn't be underestimated.

Don

Hi Lyonheart,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm gonna have to go look at that. I was figuring the two AOG armies at about 125,000 apiece, including the 20% "extras" sent along to replace casualties.

Are you sure your figures don't include the TL militia? That would make sense... Will report back. Thanks again...

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm gonna have to go look at that. I was figuring the two AOG armies at about 125,000 apiece, including the 20% "extras" sent along to replace casualties.

Are you sure your figures don't include the TL militia? That would make sense... Will report back. Thanks again...

Don

Hi Lyonheart,

Reporting back. I did indeed find that 500,000 figure you used. It comes in a nice info dump RFC gave us a while back entitled "Red Meat for the Speculators." Also I did find one place in MTAT where that figure is used. The way it was phrased, IIRC, is that the AOG had a half million men in motion.

But...

I can't account for about 200,000 of them. There are two AOG armies active in Siddarmark; Wyrshymns and Kaitwryth's. I found a quote in MTAT putting Wyrshym at 146,000 men at the beginning of the campaign. Prior to the assault on Eastshare in LAMA, Kaitwryth states that he has 150,000 plus under his command including militias. So let's be generous and say that between the two AOG armies, they have 300,000 men under arms prior to the losses they took on the Daivyn and at the Sylvan Gap.

So... what happened to the other 200,000? It seems a bit much to have misplaced them in a corner somewhere...

Anybody else got ideas? I haven't the foggiest...

Don

Hi Don,

The AoG controls at least a third of the republic's territory, somewhere around 3 million square miles which can easily swallow 200,000 trained troops on police type territorial control duties; ie 3 Million square miles divided by 5024 square miles [the radius of a day's march] means just over 597 such camps to cover that entire area, each having just under 335 men [less than 3 infantry companies], though this example is too simple it demonstrates how spread out the AoG could be.

The local TL militia, which was down to 473,000 total throughout the republic in MTaT according to the Raw Meat post, or roughly one for every 19 square miles if they were evenly spread out, but given they were concentrated in the western provinces, a 2-1 ratio would drop that to 1 every 15 square miles for the whole western half of the republic, while the eastern remainder would be down to 1 for every 26.

That was before the ICA arrived and the RSA was able to catch its breath, so I expect that number is down considerably from that by March 897 YoG.

We may also get an update soon on the ~20,000 ICN marines helping the RSA in south Siddarmark from MTaT we haven't seen since.

L


[quote="n7axw"][quote="n7axw"]Hi Lyonheart,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm gonna have to go look at that. I was figuring the two AOG armies at about 125,000 apiece, including the 20% "extras" sent along to replace casualties.

Are you sure your figures don't include the TL militia? That would make sense... Will report back. Thanks again...

Don[/quote]

Hi Lyonheart,

Reporting back. I did indeed find that 500,000 figure you used. It comes in a nice info dump RFC gave us a while back entitled "Red Meat for the Speculators." Also I did find one place in MTAT where that figure is used. The way it was phrased, IIRC, is that the AOG had a half million men in motion.

But...

I can't account for about 200,000 of them. There are two AOG armies active in Siddarmark; Wyrshymns and Kaitwryth's. I found a quote in MTAT putting Wyrshym at 146,000 men at the beginning of the campaign. Prior to the assault on Eastshare in LAMA, Kaitwryth states that he has 150,000 plus under his command including militias. So let's be generous and say that between the two AOG armies, they have 300,000 men under arms prior to the losses they took on the Daivyn and at the Sylvan Gap.

So... what happened to the other 200,000? It seems a bit much to have misplaced them in a corner somewhere...

Anybody else got ideas? I haven't the foggiest...

Don[/quote]

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

The AoG controls at least a third of the republic's territory, somewhere around 3 million square miles which can easily swallow 200,000 trained troops on police type territorial control duties; ie 3 Million square miles divided by 5024 square miles [the radius of a day's march] means just over 597 such camps to cover that entire area, each having just under 335 men [less than 3 infantry companies], though this example is too simple it demonstrates how spread out the AoG could be.

The local TL militia, which was down to 473,000 total throughout the republic in MTaT according to the Raw Meat post, or roughly one for every 19 square miles if they were evenly spread out, but given they were concentrated in the western provinces, a 2-1 ratio would drop that to 1 every 15 square miles for the whole western half of the republic, while the eastern remainder would be down to 1 for every 26.

That was before the ICA arrived and the RSA was able to catch its breath, so I expect that number is down considerably from that by March 897 YoG.

We may also get an update soon on the ~20,000 ICN marines helping the RSA in south Siddarmark from MTaT we haven't seen

I suppose that's as good of a guess as any.

Don