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(SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?

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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by Boronian   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:12 am

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Assuming Nynian didn't act on her own but with the support of her group the SSK had the same discussion like the inner circle now.

IMO telling Nynian the whole truth is too dangerous at the moment. They have to vet her longer. Of course she has to be given some information but not the crucial parts right now.

But before Merlin fulfills her request she has to be let in the inner circle. I don't think she could be put off with any story to explain his flying machine except the truth. Especially because she already suspects he is coming from a place outside of Safehold.

All in all I think she can be introduced to the inner circle in some time. But it is absolutely necessary that she keeps the truth a secret to herself and doesn't tell her organisation. And that's the reason why Merlin and the others should take their time to vet her. And it would be great for safety to find out how she communicates with her sisterhood!

Well before that decision has to be made Merlin will translate the diary at any rate and Kohdy's words could help him a lot to convince Nynian and her organisation. But maybe not...who knows but I think his diary will play a big role in explaining the truth.
The SSK reveres the diary as something very important maybe even holy thing so their saint's words will have weight with them. On the other hand they have to be sure that the translation is correct and Merlin isn't lying to them. I wonder how he convinces them, maybe his integrity is enough.

And then there is the possibility that Merlin doesn't want them to know what the diary says. He could think some parts are too dangerous because they provoke questions he doesn't want to answer when these people don't know the truth.

In any case the diary's content will make the decision if Nynian is or isn't admitted to the inner circle either much easier or much more difficult.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by Annachie   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:36 am

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Merlin could always agree to take Nynian, but he's going to make her sleep the entire trip.
Not likely but still an option.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by Randomiser   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:30 am

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Merlin is convinced she doesn't know anything about SNARCs or com's, so she's certainly gone home with a remote and is getting a full suite of them installed at her place which should give some reassurance about her actions. They haven't caught her communicating yet, but in the middle of a war spying on your friends is not a very high priority. Nynian has suddenly shot to the top of the priority list and will be getting special attention from Nahrman and OWL in accelerated time. I think Merlin can now lay hands on her whenever he likes, should it become necessary.

It might well take Nynian a fair while to get a copy of the Journal from wherever it's kept to Siddar City; it's not the sort of thing you carry around with you.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by Rod   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:45 am

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I think when Merlin gets the SSK Journal, that Nynian should get to read a copy of the Abbey's Journal! At least as a first step!

But, Is Nynian to be trusted? I'd have to say Yes.

I would like to find out what they're (SSK's) goals are though..
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:11 am

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tootall wrote:Right now--i.e. before we really do know- It's the old -"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" bit. If she's really devout- it may turn into- "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy too."

That's what's fun about all this.

Do you sometimes wonder if the Mad Wizard writes these books primarily with snippits :shock: in mind?
An alarming number of them are cliff-hangers.


Definitely!
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by Boronian   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:19 am

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Randomiser wrote:Merlin is convinced she doesn't know anything about SNARCs or com's, so she's certainly gone home with a remote and is getting a full suite of them installed at her place which should give some reassurance about her actions. They haven't caught her communicating yet, but in the middle of a war spying on your friends is not a very high priority. Nynian has suddenly shot to the top of the priority list and will be getting special attention from Nahrman and OWL in accelerated time. I think Merlin can now lay hands on her whenever he likes, should it become necessary.

It might well take Nynian a fair while to get a copy of the Journal from wherever it's kept to Siddar City; it's not the sort of thing you carry around with you.


It seemed to me that Merlin tried to find out how her spy network works but he couldn't. I don't think he didn't make it a high priority but I'm pretty sure her organisation piqued his interest and he tried to find out how it works. I remember some textev regarding this...maybe in the first snippet, I'm not sure.
But with high priority they should find it out in a short time.

I believe Nynian could have a copy of the diary already with her hidden in Siddarmark because she knew or at least expected or hoped what would happen in her conversation with Merlin. She went in believing or hoping that he can translate the Spanish parts. Even if not he surely would want to see the book as a sign of goodwill.
So I assume a copy of the book could be hidden pretty near in order that the whole translation process is hastened. Nynian is surely very keen on learning what these parts she tried to read so often say.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:22 am

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Someone suggested using the Stone of Scheuler in Nynian's presence. If coming clean is the course of action, Merlin and Father Paityr should translate the journals while Nynian reads the letter from Jeremy Knowles. The all speak while holding the Stone so everyone knows they speak the truth.

Even this carries grave risk but might mitigate many others.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by dwileye13   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:27 am

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PeterZ wrote:
tootall wrote:Right now--i.e. before we really do know- It's the old -"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" bit. If she's really devout- it may turn into- "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy too."

That's what's fun about all this.

Do you sometimes wonder if the Mad Wizard writes these books primarily with snippits :shock: in mind?
An alarming number of them are cliff-hangers.


Definitely!



IMHO Nynian is a mirror - in character - of Archbishop Staynair (less the Madam thing) Strength of Faith, Bearer of a Secret knowledge, Leader of a large Organization and active in a rebellion against the Church. Different paths but similar Character. She believes Merlin is the Sejin and is doing Gods work (as does Maikel).

She will believe the Zhernau documents as she believes the Kohdy journals. Paitr's relics and Merlin, and Merlins toys will convince her what is good for mankind and heaven help those opposed.

I am still projecting a romantic connection between Merlin and Nynian!
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by AClone   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:06 pm

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“Either we’re going to trust one another a great deal eventually, Merlin,” she said, “or this is going to end very badly for someone.”

Given what she said about her own indoctrination, she is referring to herself.
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Re: (SPOILERS) Is Nynian to be trusted?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:21 pm

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Peter is right about the risk of bringing her in. But there are countervailing risks to having her on the outside knowing that she is not quite trusted and knowing that there are things going on to which she is not privy which could inspire her to apply her not inconsiderable skills in spy craft toward finding out.

Peter is concerned that she is a passionate believer. That is true, but the question is passionate believer in what. Not everyone who loves God accepts uncritically the doctrine of the church. My own sense of Nynian is that she hasn't accepted anything uncritically in a long time. Frankly, that makes her a better candidate for the inner circle rather than the reverse since it that she will be able to step back and take another look at what she has been taught.

I agree that translating those Spanish writings is critical. That is an uncontrolled variable in the mix since at this point, we don't know what they say. Another potential fly swirling around the olive in the martini here concerns whether or not the translation will be trusted. Nynian herself seems to trust Merlin enough to tell the story of St Khody and the sisters so it is reasonable to assume that her trust in Merlin will carry over to the translation.

But that leaves the question of the sisters? How will they react when their previously untranslated document suddenly turns up translated after almost 1000 years? When would it be appropriate to tell them and who should do it?

The thing is, Merlin and the inner circle needs to get a grip on how to handle Nynian since there could be more Nynians in the future. Shsn-wei's re-educated Adams and Eves are for the most part unaccounted for. Further, we really don't know who else was re-educated by whom and what sort of secret organizations they might have left behind.

Finally, What we have on Safehold ts COGA. The last word on that title is "awaiting". Do we know what they are waiting for.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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