The equivalent of Zherneau in Siddarmark?

I would suppose it, if they hadn't had the example available.

That's not to say that they weren't original in their execution: I don't have the impression that the Ahrmahks _used_ the Commons against the aristocracy, so much as their ties to the Commons made their position unassailable and headed off that particular conflict. The Crown's authority has never been seriously challenged in Charis, but is voluntarily constrained. The situation in Chisholm wasn't and isn't the same. Therefore the Tayts had to come up with their own ways of dealing with it. What I would suggest they got from Charis was confidence that the ways they came up with could work.

JeffEngel wrote:You wouldn't suppose that it wasn't independently arrived at, to use the commons against the aristocracy? It seems so classic that it would plausibly occur to Chisholm's monarchy without having to have an example of it nearby.

Louis R wrote:I would suppose it, if they hadn't had the example available.

That's not to say that they weren't original in their execution: I don't have the impression that the Ahrmahks _used_ the Commons against the aristocracy, so much as their ties to the Commons made their position unassailable and headed off that particular conflict. The Crown's authority has never been seriously challenged in Charis, but is voluntarily constrained. The situation in Chisholm wasn't and isn't the same. Therefore the Tayts had to come up with their own ways of dealing with it. What I would suggest they got from Charis was confidence that the ways they came up with could work.

JeffEngel wrote:You wouldn't suppose that it wasn't independently arrived at, to use the commons against the aristocracy? It seems so classic that it would plausibly occur to Chisholm's monarchy without having to have an example of it nearby.

My own impression is that the aristocracy in Charis blended with the merchant class in Charis due to a shared interest in business and trade. Although it is true that the lines weren't invisible, it is also true that they weren't as harsh and sharply defined as in someplace like Desnair or even Chisholm.

Merit was accorded a lot more weight and the path for commoners into the aristocracy was better established in Charis than most realms. For example Howsmyn married the daughter of an earl who was delighted with the match and it is assumed that Howsmyn will get his own title when he gets around to it. Or another example is Sir Dunkyn becomes Baron Sarmouth after the successful rescue of Daivyn and Irys, although, IIRC, he did have some aristocratic connections prior to that.

The point of this is that Charis benefited because the aristocracy did not stratify and received infusions of fresh talent and ability.

Don

n7axw wrote:My own impression is that the aristocracy in Charis blended with the merchant class in Charis due to a shared interest in business and trade. Although it is true that the lines weren't invisible, it is also true that they weren't as harsh and sharply defined as in someplace like Desnair or even Chisholm.

Merit was accorded a lot more weight and the path for commoners into the aristocracy was better established in Charis than most realms. For example Howsmyn married the daughter of an earl who was delighted with the match and it is assumed that Howsmyn will get his own title when he gets around to it. Or another example is Sir Dunkyn becomes Baron Sarmouth after the successful rescue of Daivyn and Irys, although, IIRC, he did have some aristocratic connections prior to that.

The point of this is that Charis benefited because the aristocracy did not stratify and received infusions of fresh talent and ability.

Don

My impression was, based on Cayleb's remark about his family being the most successful pirates in Howell Bay, that the aristocracy of Charis under the Ahrmahks was probably either his crew or the slightly less successful pirates of Howell Bay. Either of which would leave a tradition of non-aristocratic persons rising into the aristocracy of Charis, at least for those willing to remember it. After all, not all aristocrats like to remember their humble beginnings. On the other hand, there is absolutely no textev for anything of the sort in the stories. However, if he who devours low-calorie dietary fiber should ever desire to add one of those little side project books with short stories and novellas from the safeholdverse, it might make an interesting entry therein.

Such side stories would be very interesting, but does the MWW have the time to do them?

Keith_w wrote:
My impression was, based on Cayleb's remark about his family being the most successful pirates in Howell Bay, that the aristocracy of Charis under the Ahrmahks was probably either his crew or the slightly less successful pirates of Howell Bay. Either of which would leave a tradition of non-aristocratic persons rising into the aristocracy of Charis, at least for those willing to remember it. After all, not all aristocrats like to remember their humble beginnings. On the other hand, there is absolutely no textev for anything of the sort in the stories. However, if he who devours low-calorie dietary fiber should ever desire to add one of those little side project books with short stories and novellas from the safeholdverse, it might make an interesting entry therein.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Such side stories would be very interesting, but does the MWW have the time to do them?

Keith_w wrote:
My impression was, based on Cayleb's remark about his family being the most successful pirates in Howell Bay, that the aristocracy of Charis under the Ahrmahks was probably either his crew or the slightly less successful pirates of Howell Bay. Either of which would leave a tradition of non-aristocratic persons rising into the aristocracy of Charis, at least for those willing to remember it. After all, not all aristocrats like to remember their humble beginnings. On the other hand, there is absolutely no textev for anything of the sort in the stories. However, if he who devours low-calorie dietary fiber should ever desire to add one of those little side project books with short stories and novellas from the safeholdverse, it might make an interesting entry therein.

Keith's point about the pirates is well taken, although I always wondered how seriously to take Cayleb's remark given the context in which it was made. Also learning that Cayleb was descended from Surmac, one of the re-educated Adams has made me wonder even more.

Drak is right on. RFC needs additional projects right now like extra holes in the head. Let the fill in stories either be farmed out or wait until the main story lines are completed.

Don

n7axw wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:Such side stories would be very interesting, but does the MWW have the time to do them?

Keith's point about the pirates is well taken, although I always wondered how seriously to take Cayleb's remark given the context in which it was made. Also learning that Cayleb was descended from Surmac, one of the re-educated Adams has made me wonder even more.

Drak is right on. RFC needs additional projects right now like extra holes in the head. Let the fill in stories either be farmed out or wait until the main story lines are completed.

Don

He doesn't actually have to write any of them (although that would be nice), just authorize it. I am sure there are plenty of others who would be happy to write "Tales from Safehold", especially "Safehold, the early years", "Safehold, War of the Fallen" or "Tales of Khody".