Gun evolution

n7axw wrote:I remember how we used to sight in our rifles before hunting season to be sure that they were firing true. We had four power scopes and usually we'd set things at 250 yards.

Same thing for sighting in cannon in principle at least. Pick your range and go from there. Might even set up a scope/periscope arrangement for the guy aiming and pulling the trigger. I bet it would improve results. Right now what they are doing is just a bit better than throwing rocks.

Don

It's a little bit more complicated - look here

Captain Igloo wrote:

n7axw wrote:I remember how we used to sight in our rifles before hunting season to be sure that they were firing true. We had four power scopes and usually we'd set things at 250 yards.

Same thing for sighting in cannon in principle at least. Pick your range and go from there. Might even set up a scope/periscope arrangement for the guy aiming and pulling the trigger. I bet it would improve results. Right now what they are doing is just a bit better than throwing rocks.

Don

It's a little bit more complicated - look here

Thanks for the link. I would wager that this sort of stuff the Royal College and Baron Seamount could figure out eventually, especially with a little judicious help from Owl.

I have never made any pretense that my thought here would be an endall solution to all gunnery problems. I have merely offered a suggestion that I think would improve accuracy in tandem with the improvement of guns. Guns still have a long way to go as does the art of gunnery. But simply because Charis cannot achieve completely modern results immediately doesn't mean that nothing at all can be done.

My proposal is something that can be implemented on the basis of tech curently available to the EOC and I believe it would be an improvement on what they are currently doing. That is all I am claiming.

Don

What about a battle sight zero?

Panzer wrote:What about a battle sight zero?

This is the sort of thing I was thinking about in general terms. Whether or not it can be applied specificly, I don't know.

Don

n7axw wrote:

Panzer wrote:What about a battle sight zero?

This is the sort of thing I was thinking about in general terms. Whether or not it can be applied specificly, I don't know.

Don

My ballistics program calls that "Point Blank Range" where the bullet will strike within the "margin of error" setting. For my .270 Winchester a point blank range for +/- one inch is 227 yards.

The problem with using that principle for Naval Guns is two-fold:

1: A BZO or Point Blank sighting doesn't account for moving targets or crosswinds.

2: Naval Guns fire far beyond even a very generous margin of error's point blank range. Even with a margin of error that will keep the shot on the hull of a ship -- say five meters -- the range is still going to be a fraction of the naval gun's range.

For example, the .270 Winchester round I hunted with has a lethal range of seven miles and an effective range of 700-800 yards. A modern Naval Rifle would consider that effective range close quarters.

What Charis needs first to improve accuracy and extend effective range is gyroscopic stabilization. That removes half of the relative motion by stabilizing the gun relative to the horizon.

Hi Harold,
I think your idea takes mine and develops it. Do you think that your suggestion is in the range of EOC tech?

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi Harold,
I think your idea takes mine and develops it. Do you think that your suggestion is in the range of EOC tech?

Don

Point blank sighting or BZO works for any projectile weapon with a consistent projectile ballistics. It works as well for crossbows and black powder muskets as it does for the most modern hunting or naval rifles.

The only requirement is knowing how much the bullet drops and how much to aim above bore-line to get the maximum rise and drop for the chosen range. It isn't technology as it is mathematics or trial and error.

The problem in applying it to naval guns is that it is only useful at point blank ranges. You still have the problem of figuring out the proper elevation to get an impact at the range of the target.

Charis has all the necessary tech to get a relatively accurate range, set the gun elevation to a precise angle, stabilize the gun in relation to the horizon, and compute ballistics tables. They're using most of that for their howitzers (high-angle guns, or just angle guns) but Naval Gunnery changes conditions too fast for manual look-ups to be effective. They need computers (non-electric analog computers) to lay accurate fire at the ranges their naval rifles are capable of.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:Hi Harold,
I think your idea takes mine and develops it. Do you think that your suggestion is in the range of EOC tech?

Don

Point blank sighting or BZO works for any projectile weapon with a consistent projectile ballistics. It works as well for crossbows and black powder muskets as it does for the most modern hunting or naval rifles.

The only requirement is knowing how much the bullet drops and how much to aim above bore-line to get the maximum rise and drop for the chosen range. It isn't technology as it is mathematics or trial and error.

The problem in applying it to naval guns is that it is only useful at point blank ranges. You still have the problem of figuring out the proper elevation to get an impact at the range of the target.

Charis has all the necessary tech to get a relatively accurate range, set the gun elevation to a precise angle, stabilize the gun in relation to the horizon, and compute ballistics tables. They're using most of that for their howitzers (high-angle guns, or just angle guns) but Naval Gunnery changes conditions too fast for manual look-ups to be effective. They need computers (non-electric analog computers) to lay accurate fire at the ranges their naval rifles are capable of.

So my sighting in idea gets them about half way there. Oh well, my idea is still an improvement. Better than throwing rocks at the moon!!

Don

n7axw wrote:So my sighting in idea gets them about half way there. Oh well, my idea is still an improvement. Better than throwing rocks at the moon!!

Don

I don't know about "improvement" -- the basic idea of BZO has probably been in use for as long as they've had cannon.

The biggest problem for naval gunnery is stabilization. Until Charis comes up with a stabilized gun mount, accuracy is going to remain an art instead of science.