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{Spoiler} Universal Rules

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
{Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by tinfoil   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:01 pm

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{spoiler applies!}


Road To Hell makes it clear that the physical rules of a given universe may not be identical to those rules in other universes.

It further seems to demonstrate that each universes' rules may depend on the common view of sentient beings (earth based humans?)

However, the Drake equation would seem to 'prove' that there should be many, many other planets out there in EACH universe containing sentient lifeforms.

So does each Universe's rules get established by the FIRST sentient species's outlook on how things should be?

Or are there differences in the universal Physical laws from one star system to another (which would make them not so universal)?

Or is there some inter-cosmic entity screwing with the system for Arcana and Sharona only?


Seems pretty messy right now...



I don't see how matter could be organized into interactive complex molecules that are so similar that Sharonians can live on Arcanian food, when the fundamental laws of each universe are so different that Newton's second law is optional in one universe but not the other.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:28 pm

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I am not sure it is accurate to say that the rules change from universe to universe. We only know that Arcana uses aether forces to offset the physical forces found in every universe. Aether forces are extradimensional. We also suspect that psychic Talents are also extradimensional since both Talents and magic do not cross universe, which are also different dimensions.

All the multiverse describes are the effects of extradimensional abilities of sentient beings. The activities in intermediate universes suggest that both abilities are available in all universes but have a tendency to dilute each other's effects.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by Astelon   » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:27 pm

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The physical rules have to be different between Sharona and Arcana; else the rifle would have worked,at full power, for everyone. Since it only worked for Jathmar (and Gadrial once she had come up with a magical explanation for its function), then I guess that a person's belief allows the rules to be altered some, at least on Arcana.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:04 pm

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No they don't. Assume that every universe has a means of sentient beings influencing the physical universe. The nature of how sentients influence the universe depends on the nature of the sentient beings. So the capabilities are the same in all universes. The differences in the beings determine which of the ways they actually influence their physical world.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by Astelon   » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:41 pm

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Whether the world has the capability of all rules or not, the ones in effect are still determined by the beings inhabiting that world. The rules are different then.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by PeterZ   » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:49 pm

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Astelon wrote:Whether the world has the capability of all rules or not, the ones in effect are still determined by the beings inhabiting that world. The rules are different then.


No. The beings use a different selection from a common menu where the menu is the laws of physics. That the rifle was made to fire by a non-magic using being illustrates that the rules are the same. That the mental capabilities of both magic using and non- magic using being can influence physical phenomena supports the common set of physical laws even more.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by Astelon   » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:17 pm

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If the physical laws were the same the rifle would have worked just fine, and magic would work on Sharona without issue. The book shows that the rifle does not work properly until Gadrial comes up with a "magical explanation" for its function; note, she does not understand or even correctly state the rifle's function, she came up with something in between the two rule sets.

Which makes me wonder, would a non gifted individual be able to fire the rifle like that? Or did Gadrial use magic to supplement the firing of the weapon? The fact that Jathmar could fire the weapon, even though it would not work properly, may mean that any one could make it work. Then again he came from the universe in which it was designed to function, so maybe he has an area about him in which his world's physics sort of function.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:47 pm

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Or it may be that Jathmar's understanding organized the aether sufficiently to fire a weak shot and Gadrial organized the aether to allow the rifle to work fully.

The physics worked the same way in both circumstances but Gadrial was better at preventing the aether from interfering.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:02 am

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I am beginning to suspect aether is responsible for both magic and psychic phenomena in the respective universes. The Talent gene allows humans to use aether to communicate beyond every universes' physical laws. The Gift gene allows humans to bring aether into the universes and introduce forces that can offset physical laws to create phenomena that go beyond what the physical laws would allow without any interference.

The more magic is used, the more aether enters and remains in the physical world and the less effective the talents are beyond the physical world. The more aether remains in the physical world, the more the base physical laws require the Gift to keep aether from interfering with their processes. This assumes non-Gifted and non-Talented do not influence aether in any way. I suspect overall belief does influence aether's ability to offset physical laws. Perhaps belief does not influence aether directly, but only increases the threshold required for aether to offset a fundamental physical force.
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Re: {Spoiler} Universal Rules
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:59 pm

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PeterZ wrote:I am beginning to suspect aether is responsible for both magic and psychic phenomena in the respective universes. The Talent gene allows humans to use aether to communicate beyond every universes' physical laws. The Gift gene allows humans to bring aether into the universes and introduce forces that can offset physical laws to create phenomena that go beyond what the physical laws would allow without any interference.

The more magic is used, the more aether enters and remains in the physical world and the less effective the talents are beyond the physical world. The more aether remains in the physical world, the more the base physical laws require the Gift to keep aether from interfering with their processes. This assumes non-Gifted and non-Talented do not influence aether in any way. I suspect overall belief does influence aether's ability to offset physical laws. Perhaps belief does not influence aether directly, but only increases the threshold required for aether to offset a fundamental physical force.


It is interesting that Jathmar's and Shaylar's talents seem only severely constricted, not completely dormat on Arcana. Jathmar is is still able to sense his wife's distress when not in the room with her.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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