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Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans

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Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by namelessfly   » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:19 pm

namelessfly

I thought that I would post this:

http://qz.com/173647/climate-change-is- ... ds-oceans/

This is an example of facts that are arguably correct yet are being presented to present an argument that is profoundly false.

I will allow people some time to analyze this and offer comments before I deconstruct it.

Most of the people on this forum are eminently qualified to understand the science and check the math. The only issue will be their willingness to analyze this critically.
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by The E   » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:53 am

The E
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Well, that was certainly one of the more tortured analogies I have ever seen used. Also a misleading headline, and incomplete data.
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by namelessfly   » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:52 pm

namelessfly

The E wrote:


Well, that was certainly one of the more tortured analogies I have ever seen used. Also a misleading headline, and incomplete data.


Of course the key issue is crunching the numbers to put the analogy in context.
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by Donnachaidh   » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:44 pm

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http://xkcd.com/1321/

namelessfly wrote:I thought that I would post this:

http://qz.com/173647/climate-change-is- ... ds-oceans/

This is an example of facts that are arguably correct yet are being presented to present an argument that is profoundly false.

I will allow people some time to analyze this and offer comments before I deconstruct it.

Most of the people on this forum are eminently qualified to understand the science and check the math. The only issue will be their willingness to analyze this critically.
_____________________________________________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by ksandgren   » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:30 pm

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Thanks 'fly for the question.

I think it goes back to something I attribute to Will Rogers before I was born (he may not have originated it, but he did make it very popular)"Figures don't lie but even liars can figure." The article assumes the values it presents are real for the entire oceanic mass, but it says nothing of how the data was acquired or what suppositions were used to make the sample data grow to world wide, ocean depth independent numbers. It also seems to simplify the joule content of the original miniscule bombs to just the couple of kilotons of TNT equivalent without regard to the total energy released. Of course, the earth is known to have had MUCH bigger impacts than a couple of bombs, as a more or less recent example look at Krakatoa early in the last century. The energy from that one natural event probably dwarfs the ZJs of the article.
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by namelessfly   » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:57 am

namelessfly

ksandgren wrote:Thanks 'fly for the question.

I think it goes back to something I attribute to Will Rogers before I was born (he may not have originated it, but he did make it very popular)"Figures don't lie but even liars can figure." The article assumes the values it presents are real for the entire oceanic mass, but it says nothing of how the data was acquired or what suppositions were used to make the sample data grow to world wide, ocean depth independent numbers. It also seems to simplify the joule content of the original miniscule bombs to just the couple of kilotons of TNT equivalent without regard to the total energy released. Of course, the earth is known to have had MUCH bigger impacts than a couple of bombs, as a more or less recent example look at Krakatoa early in the last century. The energy from that one natural event probably dwarfs the ZJs of the article.



I did not crunch the numbers but know that the original source is somewhat trustworthy, so I don't dispute them.

For me the relevant issue is context. Expressing the increase in Ocean energy content in Hiroshima equivalents does not accurately express the relative magnitude. The solar "constant" is about 1,400 Watts per square meter. At 6,400 km diameter, the earth has an effective solar energy collecting surface of about 100 million square meters or 1eex14 square meters. Earth then receives about 1.4eex17Watts from the sun. This is about 3,000 Hiroshimas per second.

Of course the really relevant comparison is the increase in heat content of the oceans relative to the total heat content of the oceans and the corresponding temperature increase.

Hints:

The Earth's surface is about 70% ocean.

The average depth of the oceans is 4,000 meters.

The heat capacity of water is 1 calories/gram/K

1 calories = 4.2 Joules.

Average ocean temperature is somewhere between freezing (273K) and boiling (373K).
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by Tenshinai   » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:30 pm

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Hmmm...

Strangely worded article.

Don´t know about the comparative numbers thrown about but the base data and fact statements seems correct at least.


This article might be more interesting:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... v0KCCQlqSp
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by namelessfly   » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:14 pm

namelessfly

Someone who shall otherwise be ignore posted this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... v0KCCQlqSp

This is absolute twaddle. The ARGO ocean temperature monitoring network collects data down to 2,000 meters. The excess heat is not "hiding" at a mere 150 meters.

You have to crunch the numbers to understand the scam.
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Re: The European Union - Discussion.
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:36 am

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namelessfly wrote:

Until you demonstrate that you can crunch the numbers on the global warming thread, your opinion has no credibility.


:roll:

Wow, keep demonstrating your pettiness.

And seriously, why are you hung up on something so idiotic? That´s just basic math, who cares, demonstrating that you can do 2nd grade maths, ooooh how amazing, what an incredible change in credibility! :lol:


The funny thing is that when i pointed out your fail in your PM, you instantly came back with that it had to be my fault, despite the fact that it took me about half a second to see how you screwed up the link.

Maybe i should base your credibility on demonstrating how to properly copy and paste internet links on forums? :lol:
Damn, the idea is so stupid it hurts.

Not that i would do it anyway. Because:
a) Your threat is completely useless, i couldn´t care less if you assign some sort of level of credibility based on such a ridiculously arbitrary thing. That you actually try to do it just shows why you have no credibility.
b) My standard for treating threats is to do something more or less nasty that is opposite to the threat in return.


So since you gave me such a nice opportunity, i just show you off as a computer illiterate who rabidly blames others for your own failures.


namelessfly wrote:I simply followed the link that you provided in your post. If there is an error, it is your error, not mine.

namelessfly wrote: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... v0KCCQlqSp

Original link:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... v0KCCQlqSp

Try both and tell the fly what happens.
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Re: Global Warming Cooking the World's Oceans
Post by namelessfly   » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:27 pm

namelessfly

Someone who shall be ignored has made some interesting claims about the alleged validity of the scam. In an effort to encourage civil discussion I am posting a link to a graph in the original source article in NATURE, here:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v5 ... 4_SF3.html

Before anyone wets themselves in response to the claim that some multiple of 10^23 Joules of excess heat has accumulated in the world's oceans, at least think back to what they hopefully taught you in math and logic classes regarding the proper use of scale when graphing data to ensure that you are not being deceptive. Then may be crunch a few numbers to put the thermal energy increase in proper perspective.

Ten brownie points shall be awarded to anyone who can express the alleged increase in thermal energy content in Kelvins.
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