Just when you thougt Islamic Extremists were nice folks?

Good point, but consider that much of the Christian bible when read literally also has similar aspects, like "not suffering a witch to live" and similar.

I have Christian and Islamic friends and relatives, and neither group want their scriptures to be read and acted on literally. Both religions have mention of stoning adulteresses to death, while I personally can think of better uses for them.

pokermind wrote:After nearly 500 years of Moorish often brutal occupation Spain drove the last of the Moorish sultans out in the IIRC 1480s, taking a page from the Moors' Islamic repression of religions other than Islam they instituted the Spanish Inquisition to make sure the forcefully converted Jews and Muslims were actually Christians, and not practicing their former religion. Islam's convert or die philosophy is 1,300 years old, since it's foundation around 750 AD.

Poker

True, however the Muslims have not had an Enlightenment stressing tolerance of other faiths and sects. I'm sure you would agree it's about fucking time they did.

Sect tolerance was extolled by Paul in Romans Chapters 14-15 in the Bible. The Koran extols tolerance until the Muslims are a majority, then to kill non believers. Instructions for infiltrating an enemy not love and respect for others' beliefs. That is the difference, and a major one. Name one Muslim country where tolerance of other religions on an equal basis exists.

Poker

pokermind wrote:Sect tolerance was extolled by Paul in Romans Chapters 14-15 in the Bible. The Koran extols tolerance until the Muslims are a majority, then to kill non believers. Instructions for infiltrating an enemy not love and respect for others' beliefs. That is the difference, and a major one. Name one Muslim country where tolerance of other religions on an equal basis exists.

And just like every rule and stipulation in the Bible is followed to the letter by every christian ever, so is every rule in the Koran followed by all muslims everywhere, right?

The E wrote:

pokermind wrote:Sect tolerance was extolled by Paul in Romans Chapters 14-15 in the Bible. The Koran extols tolerance until the Muslims are a majority, then to kill non believers. Instructions for infiltrating an enemy not love and respect for others' beliefs. That is the difference, and a major one. Name one Muslim country where tolerance of other religions on an equal basis exists.

And just like every rule and stipulation in the Bible is followed to the letter by every christian ever, so is every rule in the Koran followed by all muslims everywhere, right?

The difference is that bad muslims or those that do not follow the rules of Islam are what are termed moderates and extolled. Good Christians who follow the rules of the Bible and apply those rules consistent with Christ's teachings are condemned. Good Christians who love their neighbors as they love themselves and apply that principle to all they do.

So, to follow the Koran jot and tittle is to lie and fight your way to domination and then sumbject non-muslims to dhimmitude or to diminish non-believers to subhuman status. To follow Christ's teachings in the New Testament is to live a life of love of God and one's fellow human beings seaking to persuade by word and deed others to live the same way.

Lies vs love.... tough choice. I'll take love, thank you. Since I am Christian, I believe the choice is yours.

So you are ignoring all the bits of the bible that do not fit in with that interpretation? Some christian you are!

Do not claim that muslims who do the same thing that you are are liars and traitors to their religion.

I am absolutely astonished that this conversation is even taking place when Google is producing this result:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Isis+yaz ... art=0&sa=N

"I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more."

Name one Christin majority country where witch burning,or stoning when adultery occurs as state policy.

Now lets look at Muslim countries,

Iran executes homosexuals, those who convert from Islam stone adulterous women, whips women for perjury if two men did not see a rape, then stones her for adultry.

Saudi Arabia cuts the right hands off thieves.

The Sudan see Iran plus killing or enslaving black non Muslims

Other countries with Sharia Law Ect. Ect.

Bye the way Atheism is a capital offense under Sharia Law. Christians and Jews are not supposed to be killed just second class citizens, to shame them into converting, while those of any other faith or no faith are to be killed or enslaved.

Poker

The E wrote:So you are ignoring all the bits of the bible that do not fit in with that interpretation? Some christian you are!

I sincerely hope that is sarcasm.

Actually, I have often heard similar condemnations from non-Christians toward Christians.

Christ says "It has been said ...", and quotes the old testament laws, then says "But I say unto you ..." and modifies that old testament law.

That's one reason Christians don't stone adulterers, etc. etc.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

The E wrote:So you are ignoring all the bits of the bible that do not fit in with that interpretation? Some christian you are!

Do not claim that muslims who do the same thing that you are are liars and traitors to their religion.

Christians view The Bible as a book of progressive revelation. God reveals and expands His will as humanity learns to better understand His will.

The Old Testament to the Christian illustrates the beginnings of God's relationship to humanity and begins defining His expectations of us as read in the 10 Commendments.

The New Testament turns the 9 injuctions and 1 imperative of His Commendments into 2 all encompassing and over-riding imperatives.

Matthew 22:36-40 wrote:"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

To be a Christian is to follow Christ. To follow Chirst is to accept his words and follow his examples. This quote is clear as day. EVERYTHING written in the Bible must be interpreted in ways consistent with these two imperatives. If someone does not do this he is not following Christ as Christ asks us to follow Him. No human is perfect and our understanding of these imperatives as they apply to our lives is also imperfect. That does not absolve every Christian of attempting to attain Christ's perfection as best he/she can.

Muslims raised in their faith but rejecting some of Islam's extremism are worthy of praise. That praise is extended to individuals who make their own choices not the set of beliefs described in the Koran. Hate the sin and love the sinner, eh? It is not I who condemn them, but the Koran. They are apostates or heretics to Islam.

Good post to read & I wish many of our self proclaimed Christians would read and follow your advice.

PeterZ wrote:

The E wrote:So you are ignoring all the bits of the bible that do not fit in with that interpretation? Some christian you are!

Do not claim that muslims who do the same thing that you are are liars and traitors to their religion.

Christians view The Bible as a book of progressive revelation. God reveals and expands His will as humanity learns to better understand His will.

The Old Testament to the Christian illustrates the beginnings of God's relationship to humanity and begins defining His expectations of us as read in the 10 Commendments.

The New Testament turns the 9 injuctions and 1 imperative of His Commendments into 2 all encompassing and over-riding imperatives.

Matthew 22:36-40 wrote:"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

To be a Christian is to follow Christ. To follow Chirst is to accept his words and follow his examples. This quote is clear as day. EVERYTHING written in the Bible must be interpreted in ways consistent with these two imperatives. If someone does not do this he is not following Christ as Christ asks us to follow Him. No human is perfect and our understanding of these imperatives as they apply to our lives is also imperfect. That does not absolve every Christian of attempting to attain Christ's perfection as best he/she can.

Muslims raised in their faith but rejecting some of Islam's extremism are worthy of praise. That praise is extended to individuals who make their own choices not the set of beliefs described in the Koran. Hate the sin and love the sinner, eh? It is not I who condemn them, but the Koran. They are apostates or heretics to Islam.