Flu & Covid19

gcomeau wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Now imagine that you are President Trump during the impeachment and aftermath, evaluating conflicting reports from the same herd of bureaucrats who were conspiring to impeach you?

Who exactly in the health expert community was trying to impeach him? Name the CDC or WHO official he couldn't trust "because impeachment".

Once again, Gcomeao needs to return to his home planet. If he had actually extracted his cranium from his rectum (or the anatomical analogs) and watched the video, he would know that Pelossi was castigating Trump for excluding people from China, not Muslims.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/n ... n/2240247/

Hey moron? That doesn't say anything about her talking about the China travel ban either.

My point is that the co conspiracy by Vindman and others created reasonable suspicion that a large faction within the Federal Bureaucrats were out to get him. Neither Trump or I need to be able to identify individuals to confirm that Trump has good reason to distrust ALL Deep State bureaucrats. Vindman and others should have considered the fact that their scheming was undermining the President's trust in his own staff. This has obviously contributed to the deaths of 100,000 Americans.

I would also point out that the unrelenting criticism of President Trump on this forum is absurd. The actual death rate from the Chinavirus in the US is about average compared to European​ countries. China seems to have done much better, but how many people really trust China to be honest? Are they anymore trustworthy than North Korea? Russia seems to have a lower death rate, but the Chinavirus seems to have just launched in Russia. BTW, now that all US States have reported, Russia is still only number 2 for new infections. In spite of this, Russia will surpass the UK for total infections to become number 3. It will take Russia about a week to surpass Spain to become #2. Actual fatalities will be fascinating.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

gcomeau wrote:Hey moron? That doesn't say anything about her talking about the China travel ban either.

My point is that the co conspiracy by Vindman and others created reasonable suspicion that a large faction within the Federal Bureaucrats were out to get him. Neither Trump or I need to be able to identify individuals to confirm that Trump has good reason to distrust ALL Deep State bureaucrats. Vindman and others should have considered the fact that their scheming was undermining the President's trust in his own staff. This has obviously contributed to the deaths of 100,000 Americans.

You meant the "conspiracy" where they were called by Congress to testify then told the truth?

That conspiracy?

You're going to try to pin Covid deaths on truthful testimony under oath to an oversight body? Really? That's how fucking desperate you are to shift blame off Trump?

And I ask again, who in the HEALTH SERVICES expertise area was involved in this "conspiracy" such that Trump decided he couldn't trust MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS telling him MEDICAL FACTS?

For Fucks Sake! Were you not paying attention to the Vindman testimony in context of the Lisa Paige and Peter Strozak texts?

Vindman testimony was that he was alarmed by Trump's phone call because he was ignoring established policy regarding Russia and Ukraine. President Trump is the Commander in Chief. It is President Trump, not some bureaucrat who resembles the Pillsbury Dough Boy who determines what the policy of the United States is. Vindman and his Co conspirators that included Shifty Shitty Shiff, seized on the alleged corruption of requesting an investigation that would expose the extremely real corruption of Biden as a pretext for the impeachment.

BTW, have you noticed that Shift resembles the aliens from Mars Attacks?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:For Fucks Sake! Were you not paying attention to the Vindman testimony in context of the Lisa Paige and Peter Strozak texts?

Vindman testimony was that he was alarmed by Trump's phone call because he was ignoring established policy regarding Russia and Ukraine.

No, that was not his testimony... his first report to NSC council was because Sondland was trying to orchestrate an investigation into a US citizen by a foreign power in a clearly partisan political ploy which was totally inappropriate and compromised established national security priorities... and the second time he reported to council was after the call with Zelensky when Trump tried to extort an investigation.

Not because he "ignored policy"


Testimony transcript:


https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... -Testimony

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

n7axw wrote:I don't believe that anyone fed Trump false data.

But I do think that one could call the CDC into question about its sense of urgency in early days. Just reading through their posts on the HAN network, their level of priority on January 17 was "health update" which is fairly low priority. But reading through the update, they didn't seem to know much at that time and there was no activity locally so perhaps a "hair on fire" alert wasn't called for at that time.

But then the alerts that followed get the same priority even after it has become apparent that the fox is in the chicken coop. In fact, you don't get an upgraded priority until March 28 when you get a "health advisory" which was the don't drink clorax warning. That is high priority, one down from the top. I find myself wondering what it would take to get a "yikes, the house on fire" warning out of the CDC.

But then I wonder further how much politics influence this. The Trump administration doesn't like experts, especially if they contradict him. Was someone sitting on the CDC? If so, what would those HAN alerts looked like if they had been completely free to speak their minds. I don't know.

Don

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I actually believe that this is a well reasoned statement.

There is no doubt that the Chinese were attempting to convince the world that the Coronavirus was no big deal. There is no doubt that there was extreme disagreement within the CDC about how bad the disease is. Dr Birx recently stated that she doesn't trust anything from the CDC.

Now imagine that you are President Trump during the impeachment and aftermath, evaluating conflicting reports from the same herd of bureaucrats who were conspiring to impeach you? Do you trust Chinese officials such as Chairman Xii or do I you trust the bus? Do you take actions that will devastate the economy or do you await more evidence? Trump took the most effective step early on with the China travel ban. He caught nothing but shit for that.

Once again, Gcomeao needs to return to his home planet. If he had actually extracted his cranium from his rectum (or the anatomical analogs) and watched the video, he would know that Pelossi was castigating Trump for excluding people from China, not Muslims.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/n ... n/2240247/

Perhaps people from his home planet don't have brains?

The video reveals that Pelossi is a Neanderthal. Her nipples as well as her knuckles are dragging on the ground when she walks.

With reference to your last paragraph, that seems uncalled for. After all the lady is 80. Maybe a bit of respect would be in order.

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see any criticism of Trump in that article for either the Muslim ban or the travel ban to China. She does criticize the reduction in budget for the CDC, but that's it. She may well have elsewhere, but not in the article under your link.

I don't think that anyone would expect Trump to take drastic action that early in the game. But someone should have had boots on the ground getting info out of China then or even earlier. Also it wouldn't have been premature to be checking up on and arranging for the availability of the testing, venelators and the ppes. Doing that is called governance.


I found myself rolling my eyes a bit at how safe it was in Chinatown. But hindsight is always 20-20.

Don

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I enjoy ridiculing Pelossi about her age, but she actually looks good for a woman her age even if we impose a Botox discount.

While Pelossi was not directly castigating Trump for the travel ban in this video, the visit to Chinatown was concurrent with criticism in other venues. Creepy Joe Biden also went on video to castigate Trump for imposing the "racist" travel ban. The bottom line is that President Trump was demonized for taking the simplest, most cost effective precautions. The reaction to the China travel ban obviously dissuaded Trump from promptly imposing a similar travel ban on Europe. There have been estimates that imposing these travel bans a week earlier would have cut the infection and death rates in half.

You make valid points that the US should have been stockpiling medical supplies. Allegedly, the CDC already had such a stockpile. Unfortunately; much of that stockpile was already outdated before President Trump was elected. How many bureaucrats lied to their superiors by assuring them that the US had plenty of medical supplies? Taking steps to stock up on medical supplies even in January would have likely been inneffective because China was already hoarding suplies. That revelation would have been extremely informative.

One obvious lesson is that the US needs to repatriate critical manufacturing rather than rely on foreign countries. This aversion to reliance is particularly advisable for strategic adversaries such as China.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
You make valid points that the US should have been stockpiling medical supplies. Allegedly, the CDC already had such a stockpile. Unfortunately; much of that stockpile was already outdated before President Trump was elected. How many bureaucrats lied to their superiors by assuring them that the US had plenty of medical supplies? Taking steps to stock up on medical supplies even in January would have likely been inneffective because China was already hoarding suplies. That revelation would have been extremely informative.

Feb 7th: https://www.state.gov/the-united-states ... ronavirus/

"This week the State Department has facilitated the transportation of nearly 17.8 tons of donated medical supplies to the Chinese people, including masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials. These donations are a testament to the generosity of the American people."

The point of course not being that they shipped the supplies, that was the correct move. Fight it there to delay the spread to here.

The point was they knew of the need for those supplies, and did squat to build domestic stockpiles. Trump was still resisting calls to invoke the Defense Production Act to get PPE and medical device manufacturing kicked into high gear almost 2 months later.

One obvious lesson is that the US needs to repatriate critical manufacturing rather than rely on foreign countries. This aversion to reliance is particularly advisable for strategic adversaries such as China.

But they're outsourced to those countries because Capitalism... company CEOs choosing the lowest cost highest profit means of making their product. So how exactly do you advocate making this "repatriation" happen?

gcomeau wrote:But they're outsourced to those countries because Capitalism... company CEOs choosing the lowest cost highest profit means of making their product. So how exactly do you advocate making this "repatriation" happen?

I'm sure the politicians (taking campaign contributions) can agree on some financial aid (with lucrative pork-barrel contracts) and more tax-breaks (and higher dividends) for the companies willing to do this.

This is interesting. But I am a bit foggy. Just what is it that we need related to the virus that we are currently unable to do? Is it something that couldn't be dealt with by full implementation of the war production act?

Don

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n7axw wrote:This is interesting. But I am a bit foggy. Just what is it that we need related to the virus that we are currently unable to do? Is it something that couldn't be dealt with by full implementation of the war production act?

Don

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1. Vaccine. The defense production act isn't going to be able to do much here.

2. Effective treatment. Again, not much the act can do there.

3. PPE like N95 masks. It's STILL short. This is where the act should have been used immediately and urgently when all this started. This should have been addressed months ago but Trump refused to take the issue seriously because he was too busy downplaying it... and then in his desperate bid to avoid having any responsibility for anything put on his shoulders he made it worse by inciting a state by state bidding war over the equipment instead of coordinating a nationwide effort to produce and distribute critical materials as needed. He thought admitting it was a serious problem would make him look bad and he has no ability to think beyond the issue 5 mins in front of him. Now he looks a hell of a lot worse because he refused to take it seriously earlier and then poured fuel on the fire he let get out of control... and his natural response of course is to just lie about how everything is fine and great and perfect and the best of any country in the world. Because that is always his instinctive first go to response to anything.