Running for President...

dscott8 wrote:When considering the true impact of your taxes, Elizabeth Warren said it best:

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. ... You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

Or if you want to sum it up in visual form...

https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto ... EAVA/o.jpg

(The best part? Someone has made that image the picture you see on this businesses yelp page. )

"What have the Romans ever done for us?"

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Assuming that I can do what I want.

Amend the contusion to require a balanced budget that saves let’s say 3% for a rainy day unless in time of war or crisis. Obviously this would be something that would take time to implement slowly reducing spending and programs that overlap each other.

Ok bear with me here I might be mixing up terms to express my idea so don’t bite my head off. A graduated flat tax that tops out at say 10% with no loop holes, every person and company pays. If you are a person or company that is down on your luck and have generated little income/profit then you only pay 1%. Obviously this is only a rough concept that would have to be fleshed out more but I like the Idea that if you are super successful you or your company gets to keep 90% of what of what you generated and if you are going through hard times you are not being gouged.

Limit the access the lobbyists have to politicians and their staffs. A Lobbyist schedules an appointment with the committee that handles their perceived need and makes their case to the committee as a whole or some such similar process that limits potential corruption.

Amend the contusion to add Term limits on every one Senators, Representatives and Supreme Court justices. And unelected bureaucrats with in the government. With time these people gain power and influence and over that time it corrupts them on all sides of the political spectrum. (These positions, mostly the first two should be looked at as terms of service not careers.)

Modernize the military and overhaul the defense procurement practices. Not quite sure how to go about doing this. This will be a fine line to balance we need to keep our edge in technology and be able to produce the hardware in numbers that matter while limiting cost overruns.

Secure the border north and south through a combination of strategies i.e. a wall, joint military training areas (train our drone operators by having them follow people and vehicles crossing the border.) and follow through on our laws. If there are no borders there is no country.

Limit H1b visas for companies that are doing well. A lot of companies are replacing their American workers because they can bring in someone from out of country and only pay them 2/3 of what they were paying the American.

Ok this one might piss off some people but there needs to be some form of amnesty for people that are already here we just can’t afford the cost of finding them all and sending them back. However if you are a violent or habitual criminal (not counting crossing the border illegally.) you’re out. Now for everyone else you are legalized once you can read and speak English, pay a fine and preform a few hours of community service but you cannot vote however any children you have after your legalization will be considered natural citizens and can vote and even run for president one day if they so choose.

Healthcare……..throw the affordable care act out the window. And let’s start with getting teams of representatives from each state and draft something that allows insurance companies to compete in all of the states increasing the pool of people and other such measures that will lower the cost of insurance while limiting government involvement. And add people with preexisting conditions to Medicare/Medicaid and make it illegal for an insurance company do deny supplemental insurance.

Education let’s get back to the basics Math, reading/reading comprehension, History (especially American history the good and the bad), Government how it works and why our forefathers set it up this way, and science. And I let’s not just push collage for everyone because lets be real it’s not meant for everyone let’s talk to the kids about trades and skills the military, police, fire departments and EMTs. Let’s look at other countries and see what they get right and what they get wrong and let’s take the parts that work and would fit in with our culture.

barkerpa3466 wrote:Ok bear with me here I might be mixing up terms to express my idea so don’t bite my head off. A graduated flat tax that tops out at say 10% with no loop holes, every person and company pays. If you are a person or company that is down on your luck and have generated little income/profit then you only pay 1%. Obviously this is only a rough concept that would have to be fleshed out more but I like the Idea that if you are super successful you or your company gets to keep 90% of what of what you generated and if you are going through hard times you are not being gouged.

A flat tax is one of those proposals that always sounds good in theory, but rarely works out in practice. For one, while it sounds fair, it actually isn't: As income gets lower, the impact of losing 10% of it (or whatever percentage you choose) gets greater: If you're making 1000 USD and get to keep 900 USD, you're feeling the loss of a 100 USD much more than someone who makes 10k and gets to keep 9k.

Another thing to consider is that the tax code is an instrument by which behaviour that benefits society can be encouraged: Tax deductions for parents are an example of this.

Limit the access the lobbyists have to politicians and their staffs. A Lobbyist schedules an appointment with the committee that handles their perceived need and makes their case to the committee as a whole or some such similar process that limits potential corruption.

Define the difference between a lobbyist and a concerned citizen who wishes to bring up an issue with his or her representative.

(If you're really interested in removing the influence of lobbyists, finding a way to disentangle campaign contributions from individual campaigns is an avenue worth exploring)

Amend the contusion to add Term limits on every one Senators, Representatives and Supreme Court justices. And unelected bureaucrats with in the government. With time these people gain power and influence and over that time it corrupts them on all sides of the political spectrum. (These positions, mostly the first two should be looked at as terms of service not careers.)

This is a good idea.

Modernize the military and overhaul the defense procurement practices. Not quite sure how to go about doing this. This will be a fine line to balance we need to keep our edge in technology and be able to produce the hardware in numbers that matter while limiting cost overruns.

This requires very far reaching reforms. Not saying it's a bad idea, but it does require a lot of work.

Secure the border north and south through a combination of strategies i.e. a wall, joint military training areas (train our drone operators by having them follow people and vehicles crossing the border.) and follow through on our laws. If there are no borders there is no country.

Didn't realize illegal immigrants from Canada were that big a problem

I will just point out that large walls have never worked for long. Research China and Berlin for reference.

Ok this one might piss off some people but there needs to be some form of amnesty for people that are already here we just can’t afford the cost of finding them all and sending them back. However if you are a violent or habitual criminal (not counting crossing the border illegally.) you’re out. Now for everyone else you are legalized once you can read and speak English, pay a fine and preform a few hours of community service but you cannot vote however any children you have after your legalization will be considered natural citizens and can vote and even run for president one day if they so choose.

Creating second class citizens is never a good idea.

Healthcare……..throw the affordable care act out the window. And let’s start with getting teams of representatives from each state and draft something that allows insurance companies to compete in all of the states increasing the pool of people and other such measures that will lower the cost of insurance while limiting government involvement. And add people with preexisting conditions to Medicare/Medicaid and make it illegal for an insurance company do deny supplemental insurance.

Not gonna touch this much. The way the US works is fundamentally unsuited for sane approaches to public health care.

Education let’s get back to the basics Math, reading/reading comprehension, History (especially American history the good and the bad), Government how it works and why our forefathers set it up this way, and science. And I let’s not just push collage for everyone because lets be real it’s not meant for everyone let’s talk to the kids about trades and skills the military, police, fire departments and EMTs. Let’s look at other countries and see what they get right and what they get wrong and let’s take the parts that work and would fit in with our culture.

Let's turn this question around: What do you think is unnecessary in modern curriculae?

barkerpa3466 wrote:Ok this one might piss off some people but there needs to be some form of amnesty for people that are already here we just can’t afford the cost of finding them all and sending them back. However if you are a violent or habitual criminal (not counting crossing the border illegally.) you’re out. Now for everyone else you are legalized once you can read and speak English, pay a fine and preform a few hours of community service but you cannot vote however any children you have after your legalization will be considered natural citizens and can vote and even run for president one day if they so choose.

Any children they have after they immigrate to the US (whether legalized or not) are already citizens.

Starsaber wrote: Any children they have after they immigrate to the US (whether legalized or not) are already citizens.

True but should they be if their both of their parents are here illegally?

My opinion is no and it sounds somewhat mean even to me, however what is good kind and ethical for an individual is not necessarily the same when it comes to the roll of the government in relation to non-citizens.

But I am also in favor of allowing them to become legal citizens once the border is secure.

Sorry first time using quotes on this site don't think I did it right.

Hey E,
your are in bold my answers in plane, still figuring out the quote setup for the site.

A flat tax is one of those proposals that always sounds good in theory, but rarely works out in practice. For one, while it sounds fair, it actually isn't: As income gets lower, the impact of losing 10% of it (or whatever percentage you choose) gets greater: If you're making 1000 USD and get to keep 900 USD, you're feeling the loss of a 100 USD much more than someone who makes 10k and gets to keep 9k.

Another thing to consider is that the tax code is an instrument by which behaviour that benefits society can be encouraged: Tax deductions for parents are an example of this.

“Graduated flat tax” which I realize just makes it a graduated income tax, I guess I just wanted to use the term to emphasize the lack of loop holes and write offs.

And nothing in life is fair for everyone, someone is always going to the short end of the stick the trick is to limit it as much as possible, hence my use of graduated you’re doing great we only going to take 10% of your profit/income….I’m sorry you have had a hard year let’s see where you fall as far as profit/income look at this you only need to pay 1% hell even .5% the point is you have a vested interest in the system and as a citizen and voter you want to make sure its spent wisely and the people that went out in to the world and bettered themselves and worked hard to gain knowledge and skills so they can have a good life are not paying for the people that didn’t.

As for using tax code to preform social engineering i.e. high taxes on tobacco, sugar and deductions for children I don’t agree with it…….not that I don’t take advantage of it to keep more money in my pocket. And is not the purpose of our federal government, now if a State or local government wanted to pursue a tax code to try and modify the behavior of its citizens then so be it so long as it does not violate the Constitution and bill of rights. In fact that was the intention of our founding fathers to have states be the experiments to see what worked and didn’t work by letting the citizens control their states/and local governments by voting at the ballot box or with their feet by leaving the state and or town/city, while at the same time keeping the federal government out of the daily lives of the citizens as much as possible.

Ok let me try and articulate a thought here………ok I have a child, now I didn’t have the child because I get a tax deduction that would be stupid because he or she costs me say 2K in food, clothes and other such things a year and each year they get a little bit more expensive. however the deduction does not go up I only receive say 1K in deduction each year now let’s assume that I can claim them as a dependent until they are 26 so I pocket 26K but I have spent probably about 70K is that same time on them…..now if I did not have a child at all in the same time span yeah I would have paid an extra 26K in taxes but because I did not have any of the other expenses I actually have an extra 44K in the bank…..so how would that modify my behavior? Now taxing items I that I don’t need might modify my behavior like a heavy tobacco, and sugar taxes but now you are just creating a black market for these items.

Define the difference between a lobbyist and a concerned citizen who wishes to bring up an issue with his or her representative.

(If you're really interested in removing the influence of lobbyists, finding a way to disentangle campaign contributions from individual campaigns is an avenue worth exploring)

In my Idea there is no difference, both should be treated the same and have the same access. And the meeting should be public record that way if there is a group with an opposing view point they can see it and schedule their own appointment with the committee……and just because you go before the committee does not mean your idea will be acted on it just a way any citizen or group can be heard by both the government and the people.

The only way I see this even possibly being viable is the government controlled the money and at that it would have to be amended into the constitution that all parties get equal amount to prevent the controlling party (if there is one) from limiting the funds of the opposition…..but then there is also the fact that the majority of our TV and print media are biased towards one party the democrats giving them a huge platform without spending any money. Granted the Republicans dominate AM talk radio and could be argued they have Fox News but they don’t reach nearly as many people as Hollywood, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, Huffington post, Washington post, Time, New York Times Facebook, Twitter and so on and so on. So to combat that you would have to instate a form of the fairness doctrine and that would limit free speech and that is not a good path.

I think the best bet for this is full disclosure of all donors no matter how little they donated for both the parties and PAC’s and no foreign donations allowed.

This requires very far reaching reforms. Not saying it's a bad idea, but it does require a lot of work.

Agreed……example of complexity. A lot of people would point to the F-35 as a huge failure because of the cost of the program over 1 billion dollars to develop that aircraft now here is the kicker there are three variants of this aircraft the A,B and C from what I have read there is only a 25% of commonality between the variants so if you look at each variant as a different aircraft because of the different design requirements. the program cost is approximately 333 million per type which to me does not seem to bad this is about the cost of building and launching a commercial satellites in fact several of our military satellites have cost more than the entire F-35 program and it takes several versions of the same satellite to get even close to the cost of one commercial satellite. And even if the government felt that the program was a complete wash you have to continue because there is no replacement for our ageing aircraft and other military infrastructure.

Didn't realize illegal immigrants from Canada were that big a problem

I will just point out that large walls have never worked for long. Research China and Berlin for reference.

Not so much the Canadians ……. but terrorists, drugs and gangs. It seems like Canada does a great job vetting who comes into their country limiting threats on our northern border but we still need to be vigilant because it’s a two way street if Canada ever pissies off a group of people they probably hope that we would be as vigilant as they are.

Agreed a wall is not enough that is why I said “through a combination of strategies”…..that I see as ever evolving and adapting a wall is just one such strategy.

Creating second class citizens is never a good idea.

I agree one just has to look at Germany during World War II or even Russia

So let’s modify it. After you learn to read and speak English, pay your fine and perform community service you are legalized but you don’t become a full citizen till 10 or 15 years after your legalization. And during that time if you break the law i.e. felony you’re out. We need some sort of voting ban because we cannot integrate 15+ million people into our political system over night. Would be extremely detrimental, granting one political party namely the Democratic Party almost total control for probably a generation and we all know power corrupts.

Not gonna touch this much. The way the US works is fundamentally unsuited for sane approaches to public health care.

I wouldn’t use sane or insane we as a culture we disagree with socialized medicine because our country was founded on the ideology of limited government and self-reliance (though that is changing) I pay for my own insurance I don’t want to pay for someone else’s it’s not my responsibility and I don’t expect others to pay for me. But there is a catch I have no problem paying to cover those who cannot pay for themselves i.e. those with physical or mental disabilities.

I am going to try a paraphrase Thomas Jefferson I think , was trying to find the actual quote on the web but no luck so far. And it is in relation to welfare type programs run by the government, and its essence is basically that when an individual or groups of individuals are dependent upon the government for a need then they are enslaved by the government or the party offering it said need. And practical examples of this are the generations of family’s that are on the welfare system and even social security. One party says hey we are spending too much on this the other say we are not spending enough if you are on the system who are you going to vote for?

Because of our view of limited federal government, it’s not the federal governments job it be involved in it. However just like all things there should be a balance and again our constitution does that nicely, if a state or local government wanted a socialized healthcare system they can.


Let's turn this question around: What do you think is unnecessary in modern curriculae?

I cannot think of something that is not needed maybe even a few need to be expanded upon or specialized depending on which grade you are in.

We need math to help teach logic and critical thinking/problem solving skills

We need in our case English/reading comprehension to facilitate communications and understanding

History and government to help prevent repeating our past mistakes and teach responsibilities of a citizen such as the importance of voting and jury duty and the like.

Economics…..so people realize that bottom up economics does not work….joking but all economic philosophies should be explained.

Science so everyone has a basic understanding of how things work maybe in high school this should start to get specialized into fields of study including engineering, computer sciences, sports medicine to help the student figure out what they might want to do with their life.

And let’s bring skill type classes back like wood shop auto shop and even expand on that with welding or even a machine shop class.
Here we have a concept of the students feelings being more

important than what they learn and I was a (I hate the next word and think that it is too strong in this use) victim of this philosophy. Early in my elementary school carrier I had a very big issue with being able to read now my mother and father had to fight to have me held back, the school and my teachers were more worried about my feelings at the time when my parents were more concerned about how I would feel as an adult not being able to read. Now my parents took a couple extra steps my mother introduced me to DC Comic books my Dad gave me Disney Adventures then my mom put a couple goosebumps books in front of me then she hit me with a whammy Enders Game and I was hooked on books, then when I was nose deep in some Star Wars book my Dad would make me come up for air and read the classics white fang, tom sawyer, Dr. Jekel and Mr. Hyde, Sherlock Holmes and so on. The school system being concerned with my feelings even followed me across state lines when I went to live with my dad for middle school they called my father’s house while we were working in the garage asking him if he wanted to stay in Special Ed (couple clarifications here, now by this point my reading comprehension was probably about two or three grades ahead of where I was. Second at the time in CA they were trying an experiment by combining the kids with learning difficulties me at the time and super smart kids hoping that they would rub off on us I just remember playing Oregon trail all of the time. The State of Oregon took this as Special Ed when they called my Dad.) he looked at me and asked (now I know as an adult that he would have said no, no matter what my answer was but as a kid that was a profound choice say yes so that I would stay in the easy classes where they practically give you the answers or take responsibility for my future) I said NO! Now these actions by my cruel parents cascaded so that when I took my ASVAB probably about 10 years later allowed me to score extremely well and find a career in the Marines that I enjoyed and that would transfer to the private sector allowing me to purchase a house and be financially tight but secure, but I still cannot spell to save my life.

The E wrote:

barkerpa3466 wrote:
Amend the contusion to add Term limits on every one Senators, Representatives and Supreme Court justices. And unelected bureaucrats with in the government. With time these people gain power and influence and over that time it corrupts them on all sides of the political spectrum. (These positions, mostly the first two should be looked at as terms of service not careers.)

This is a good idea.

Again this is something that looks good on paper but is really bad in practice. term limits started as a cynical ploy by the GOP/RNC to try to break "the power of the incumbent" in the attempt to wrest congress from a virtual Democrat majority since 1934. Notice that as soon as they got control the idea of term limits went away. Apparently it had limited life.

Yes they gain power and influence. They also gain expertise. Where there is money there is power. As long as there is a government thee will be power. The question is, WHO gets to wield it. If you limit terms to elected officials, the expertise/power devolves to the bureaucrats if you limit their terms also, they quit, as did the politicians before them, and run to the lobbyists. So you cede control of government away from elected officials, nominally admittedly, responsible to the electorate to the Corporations who hire the lobbyists in the first place. Mission failed.

Health insurance, well specifically health insurance of last resort, is everyones responsibility.

One way or the other it lands at the governments door. Either through paying for itup front or dealing with the costs of the dead.


Honestly, the only way to really reform the American health care system is probably to nationalize it totally, reform it from te ground up, then sell sectons back into private hands.
The current system, where health insurance is more important than wage to far too many workers, is unsustainable and dumps too many people on the governments last resort.

Can't see it happening though.

There's a whole range statute of
limitations stuff that I'd remove the limitations on. (OK, force the hill to remove )

I'd also try to speed up the death sentences. Shouldn't sit on death row for 10 years.

I also like the idea that thehead of state should actually do it. (Govenors/President)
Ultimate State sanction should be carried out by the head of state.



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[quote="The E


Ok this one might piss off some people but there needs to be some form of amnesty for people that are already here we just can’t afford the cost of finding them all and sending them back. However if you are a violent or habitual criminal (not counting crossing the border illegally.) you’re out. Now for everyone else you are legalized once you can read and speak English, pay a fine and preform a few hours of community service but you cannot vote however any children you have after your legalization will be considered natural citizens and can vote and even run for president one day if they so choose

Creating second class citizens is never a good idea.[/quote]

I agree about creating second class citizens. Not sure what either of you mean by "citizen" or "natural citizen" except that constitutionally, citizenship is granted by birth or naturalization. Natural born citizen is NEVER defined in the constitution. So the misapprehension continues. Which gave rise to the birthers.

However under US immigration law legal immigrants have the right to apply for citizenship, but are not required. I know several Canadians (my deceased wife being one) who never opted for citizenship. They remain legal residents but not citizens.

I am making the assumption that the denial of path to citizenship is not intended to create a "second class" resident alien, but as a political compromise to get the law passed in the first place. To place it in an Honorverse perspective, it does not create a "seccy" class as we find on Mesa, but a bubble like the Talbott Cluster, and probably Silesia where it dissipates over time.