Time to read THE LAST CENTURION?

Dilandu wrote:

cthia wrote:
America eats the cost of high military expenditures to protect it's allies. America eats the cost of high medical costs to fuel a medical R&D second to none. There are no peers. I have to live with the rants from a woman called my sister, who is knee deep in the hoopla.

Yeah, now please answer one simple question: why America could not provide its population with insulin?

The answer is: because your glorious medical researches were aimed specifically toward circumventing Banting's patent, so the companies could justify raising the price on vital medication.

In essense, they developed slightly better insulin solution, to justify order of magnitude higher cost. So essentially, in practical therms they spend money on developement made specifically to pump more money out of patients. The US insuline production is less than 15% of world total, but it generates more than 55% of total revenue in this area.

Yeah, peoples in USA who died because they could not afford insulin must be really proud that the US pharmaceutical put so much efforts into making the most basic, most vital solution too expensive to afford.

This is why I don't generally participate in the Politics Forum. Foreign arrogance, and the obvious fact that you don't really want to know the truth. You just want to bash and point fingers. There are lots of things in the US I'm not proud of. But for foreigners to point a finger when the other four are pointing back at you doesn't help.

The schematic I laid out on page 12 is simply the tip of the iceberg, but a real reality. The story of insulin can be read for yourself. However, even there the true story hides. I am not at liberty, not do I care, to point out some of the ugly truths in American Pharmas.

As in all things there is corruption within the network of American Pharmas. Legal corruption, and since it is legal to exploit a patent free drug like insulin, it is more a scruples and ethics issue. However, many smaller Pharmas ride insulin to success. It IS what it IS. But the story is even more complicated an itch than that that I don't wish to scratch. Much of your answer is contained within my post on the previous page. If you cared to actually learn something from it.

But I agree. America should start taking care of it's own. It could start by shutting down the free ride foreign countries get from a windfall of American research done on the back of American infrastructure; and make foreign countries ante up.

It should stop spending so much on the military and make foreign countries ante up. America could use the money to fund it's healthcare costs, huh?

But if you really are concerned, you can stop your country from stealing and cutting into the profits and creditability of American Pharmas and start paying your fair share.

Cut it out!

Another of my sister's pet peeves.

I almost forgot. Slightly better insulin solutions?

Is critical to many people. Take epi pens. Many need refrigeration after the first use. That's not practical. A better solution that does not need refrigeration after the first use was developed. Many people cannot take the common method of receiving insulin for many reasons. Many other people overdose before research led to better devices to help memory handicapped patients. Etc.

Stop banging with a paper hammer.

cthia wrote:
As in all things there is corruption within the network of American Pharmas. Legal corruption, and since it is legal to exploit a patent free drug like insulin, it is more a scruples and ethics issue. However, many smaller Pharmas ride insulin to success. It IS what it IS. But the story is even more complicated an itch than that that I don't wish to scratch. Much of your answer is contained within my post on the previous page. If you cared to actually learn something from it.

Translation from Greatamerikansky to general human: "Yes, the roof is falling on our heads, so what? Better look at our marvellous furniture!"

You are so reluctant to admit that your system may not be ideal even in theory, that you insisting that those all are "small problems not worthy of attention".

Should I remind you, that it was exactly that tendency to ignore warnings & absolute assumption that everything is generally fine that doomed USSR?

I was under impression that Americans learned something from Soviet mistakes. Seems that you only grasped the nonessential parts, and completely missed the main lesson: reality is not working in "generally fine" therms.

cthia wrote:I almost forgot. Slightly better insulin solutions?

Is critical to many people. Take epi pens. Many need refrigeration after the first use. That's not practical. A better solution that does not need refrigeration after the first use was developed. Many people cannot take the common method of receiving insulin for many reasons. Many other people overdose before research led to better devices to help memory handicapped patients. Etc.

Stop banging with a paper hammer.

Just marvellous. Just one little problem: many peoples could not afford them.

Your claims would make sense, if there were plenty of freely available standard insulin in USA. But there isn't. Essentially, it is "they have no bread, they should eat cakes instead" kind of logic.

The paper hammer is only funny when the velocity is below 1 km/s, you know.

Dilandu wrote:

cthia wrote:
As in all things there is corruption within the network of American Pharmas. Legal corruption, and since it is legal to exploit a patent free drug like insulin, it is more a scruples and ethics issue. However, many smaller Pharmas ride insulin to success. It IS what it IS. But the story is even more complicated an itch than that that I don't wish to scratch. Much of your answer is contained within my post on the previous page. If you cared to actually learn something from it.

Translation from Greatamerikansky to general human: "Yes, the roof is falling on our heads, so what? Better look at our marvellous furniture!"

You are so reluctant to admit that your system may not be ideal even in theory, that you insisting that those all are "small problems not worthy of attention".

Should I remind you, that it was exactly that tendency to ignore warnings & absolute assumption that everything is generally fine that doomed USSR?

I was under impression that Americans learned something from Soviet mistakes. Seems that you only grasped the nonessential parts, and completely missed the main lesson: reality is not working in "generally fine" therms.

Of what system do you speak? The Democratic system? I agree it isn't perfect. Got a better alternative?

I'm simply attempting to point out that all is not as it seems. You can't judge a book by its cover. And if you want to know what's inside the book, don't rely on the internet.

Dilandu wrote:

cthia wrote:I almost forgot. Slightly better insulin solutions?

Is critical to many people. Take epi pens. Many need refrigeration after the first use. That's not practical. A better solution that does not need refrigeration after the first use was developed. Many people cannot take the common method of receiving insulin for many reasons. Many other people overdose before research led to better devices to help memory handicapped patients. Etc.

Stop banging with a paper hammer.

Just marvellous. Just one little problem: many peoples could not afford them.

Your claims would make sense, if there were plenty of freely available standard insulin in USA. But there isn't. Essentially, it is "they have no bread, they should eat cakes instead" kind of logic.

The paper hammer is only funny when the velocity is below 1 km/s, you know.

LOL

I like your comeback. I used the same line on my niece regarding the can-o-worms in the Ramblings thread. She said "My paper hammer is the packaging around the steel." LOL

Both of you... SCORE!

Dilandu. I agree with you about the shameful fiasco surrounding insulin. We are trying to get a handle on a problem that should never have become one. But again, and not to make excuses, it is more detailed than you know. America cannot rush to shoot itself in the foot. I can't explain that. I wish I could. Actually, I wish my sister would. If she could. But she can't. Her hands are tied. A lot of it has to do with the fact that a generic form of insulin is not possible. And other facts.

Insulin woes are the tip of the iceberg. I personally covered a friend's hideous medical cost for a dose of lupus for over a year until it was picked up elsewhere. One dose over $8000.

"Zolgensma, a new drug recently approved by the FDA, costs more than $2.1 million. The Food and Drug Administration has approved a gene therapy for a rare childhood disorder that is now the most expensive drug on the market."

It's ugly out there. But everything isn't exactly as it seems.

cthia wrote:I almost forgot. Slightly better insulin solutions?

Is critical to many people. Take epi pens. Many need refrigeration after the first use. That's not practical. A better solution that does not need refrigeration after the first use was developed. Many people cannot take the common method of receiving insulin for many reasons. Many other people overdose before research led to better devices to help memory handicapped patients. Etc.

Stop banging with a paper hammer.

Stop blaming us for problems of your own making. We europeans with our socialized health care systems didn't force you to allow pharma companies to profit indefinitely off of slight remixes of long out-of-patent drugs. We are not at fault for your lack of a single-payer system that can negotiate effectively with pharma companies.

cthia wrote: SNIP
This is why I don't generally participate in the Politics Forum. Foreign arrogance, and the obvious fact that you don't really want to know the truth. You just want to bash and point fingers. There are lots of things in the US I'm not proud of. But for foreigners to point a finger when the other four are pointing back at you doesn't help.

The schematic I laid out on page 12 is simply the tip of the iceberg, but a real reality. The story of insulin can be read for yourself. However, even there the true story hides. I am not at liberty, not do I care, to point out some of the ugly truths in American Pharmas.

As in all things there is corruption within the network of American Pharmas. Legal corruption, and since it is legal to exploit a patent free drug like insulin, it is more a scruples and ethics issue. However, many smaller Pharmas ride insulin to success. It IS what it IS. But the story is even more complicated an itch than that that I don't wish to scratch. Much of your answer is contained within my post on the previous page. If you cared to actually learn something from it.

But I agree. America should start taking care of it's own. It could start by shutting down the free ride foreign countries get from a windfall of American research done on the back of American infrastructure; and make foreign countries ante up.

It should stop spending so much on the military and make foreign countries ante up. America could use the money to fund it's healthcare costs, huh?

But if you really are concerned, you can stop your country from stealing and cutting into the profits and creditability of American Pharmas and start paying your fair share.

Cut it out!

Another of my sister's pet peeves.

hmmmmm - well, you seem to be happy to beat on US Pharma, pointing out its corruption etc, but tell us, non US people, not to do anything to damage their creditability!


I read your long note about the complex Pharma companies and their R&D with some interest.

However, it still did not answer the basic question as to why the US medical pay so much more?

- I might expect that US medicine system would pay less that Non US medicine systems, like the NHS
- I could understand that the US medicine system would pay the same as the NHS
- BUT for the US medicine system to actually pay more? That is what I don't understand, and your note does not seem to address.

AFAIC there is no US Gov policy that forces that policy, so where does it come from?

Basically it comes from the policies of the US Pharma companies, so maybe you in the US should be focusing on that and not the 'evil bloodsucking arrogant foreigners'

Interesting story. Three years ago I also was rushed to my local hospital with a very low haemoglobin level (seeing the white light tunnel). Within hours I was transported two hours to my state capital, given six blood transfusions, and over two weeks had a 4 way pacemaker fitted along with a portacath (device to facilitate large amounts of chemotherapy directly into the blood stream). Then commenced six months of chemo using four treatments. End result of remission since then and a $300 bill.
While not religious I would hope that a special hot corner of hell is reserved for some US drug company executives, for their practice of letting poor people die if they can't afford treatment.

n7axw wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:The bigotry by foreigners displayed on this forum truly astounds me. The US system is expensive. Malpractice awsuits and the fear of lawsuits multiply the costs. However; anyone walking or being wheeled in to the ER is going to get cared for with or without insurance. This care includes quick access to sophisticated diagnostics such as CAT scan and MRI.

I was in an emergency room of one of our major hospitals lately. Our family doctor rushed her up there...I drove, not an ambulance... because her hemoglobin had fallen to 6 which is dangerously low. We sat in the waiting room for two hours while the staff tried to juggle the seriously ill people like my wife and poor people who were there because they could not afford the services. The place was filled with sick and cranky children. My heart went out to them, but the emergency room is not a good place to run a clinic for poor people.

My wife was eventually checked into the hospital and got a unit of blood. Later her problem was properly diagnosed and dealt with.

That is not a good scene. It was a real good example of why we need to get this situation corralled and under control.

Don

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cthia wrote:
I'm simply attempting to point out that all is not as it seems. You can't judge a book by its cover. And if you want to know what's inside the book, don't rely on the internet.

It would be splendid advice, if you & TFY did not demonstrate constant attempts do do exactly that, you know. And I do not claim that I know US system perfectly (albeit I have a nasty suspicion that I knew more about America, than you about Russia). I just pointed out, that your medical system blundered the coronavirus pandemic and there are reasons to believe that it is not just an accident, but more likely it is the system failure. And your argument is "but we invested more than anyone else in research!" - sorry, but it starts to sound exactly like the late Soviet "there are no sugar in stores, but hey, our country is on first place by the cast-iron production growth!"