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US Presidential Candidates

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by The E   » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:33 pm

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PeterZ wrote:If the investigation into voter and election fraud happens, even those cities will be tougher to win. Democrats will still win there, but it won't be nearly as easy for places like Chicago to deliver victories.


That's assuming, of course, that these investigations will somehow find evidence of vote fraud on anything but the trivial level.

(Which they of course will, at least when the White House will make their statement on the matter. It's not like the Trumpenführer would accept any other outcome)
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Annachie   » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:18 pm

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A large part of Clinton's loss is the 12+ year, and hundreds of millions of dollars, campaign against her by the GOP.

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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:35 pm

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Annachie wrote:A large part of Clinton's loss is the 12+ year, and hundreds of millions of dollars, campaign against her by the GOP.

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If any sorry fool could have beat her, why cheat to keep Bernie off the ticket?
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:29 am

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PeterZ wrote:
Annachie wrote:A large part of Clinton's loss is the 12+ year, and hundreds of millions of dollars, campaign against her by the GOP.

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If any sorry fool could have beat her, why cheat to keep Bernie off the ticket?


That is the question, isn't it. I mean the whole thing was Obama stole the nomination from her and got a lightweight opponent. They stacked the deck and simultaneously alienated a good percentage of the voters she really needed.

Helas, a lesson that will certainly not be learned.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by Eyal   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:50 am

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PeterZ wrote:You appear to agree with me. You cut President Trump no slack just as I cut Clinton none. While I recognize my bias, you don't. Further, there are more folks out there who also don't recognize their bias. I watch their righteous fury with great enjoyment.


To add to what others have said:

The Benghazi affair is different. An equivalent situation would have been one in which Clinton had denied ever making those statements, which she didn't - the entire debate was on whether she knowingly made false statements.The Republicans wasted millions of taxpayer dollars trying to prove she did that, and failed.

*Maybe "spent" would be a better word, seeing as they got [what they were actually after in the end...

Trump's statements are different because he'll say one thing - on video, even - and then come the next day, deny it and say the opposite. There's no room for different interpretations or doubt on what he did - yet his supporters eat it up anyway.

When we come to evaluate the truth of a statement by a public figure, we can weigh the following (absent supporting information):

1) Does he have an interest in lying on this?
2) Is the matter important enough to lie about (and risk getting caught out?
3) Does the speaker have a reputation for being honest in general?

In Trump's case, he and his team have shown they'll lie about anything, no matter how trivial it is, or how likely they are to get caught. Which means that the White House currently has almost no credibility.

Consider - a couple of days ago, there were reports that Trump was intending to reopen the CIA black sites (I'll refrain from making an XCOM2 joke). Spicer denied it, saying it was a proposal from someone no longer on the transition team. The problem is that since Spicer has shown he'll lie about anything, his denial by itself isn't worth spit.

PeterZ wrote:
Annachie wrote:A large part of Clinton's loss is the 12+ year, and hundreds of millions of dollars, campaign against her by the GOP.

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If any sorry fool could have beat her, why cheat to keep Bernie off the ticket?


Cheat how? I mean, the only thing I've seen which has any substance is Donna Brazile giving here a debate question before hand - except that the question was both an obvious one (regarding the Flint water crisis during a debate in Flint) and in any event wasn't asked as and by who Brazille claimed. I mean, the DNC was being accused of cheating due to actiosn carried out by state-level Republicans (e.g. primary voting in Arizona), FFS!
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:39 pm

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As I recall Wikileaks had emails from Wassweman-Schultz indicating the DNC had a pro Clinton bias and was acting upon it. One of the reasons she lost her job shortly after the convention. Don't want to look up the particulars at the moment.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:56 pm

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WeirdlyWired wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
If any sorry fool could have beat her, why cheat to keep Bernie off the ticket?


That is the question, isn't it. I mean the whole thing was Obama stole the nomination from her and got a lightweight opponent. They stacked the deck and simultaneously alienated a good percentage of the voters she really needed.

Helas, a lesson that will certainly not be learned.

That's my core point. It seemed no one in politics read the electorate or their respective parties as well as Trump. Bernie had the pulse of the Dem primary electorate, but was hapless to counter the DNC. Hillary had the DNC in the bag, but was out of touch with the voters. Trump bypassed the RNC again and again to get the nomination. He turned the debates away from a contest of who could articulate better into who could successfully engage in a bare-knuckle brawl.

Hillary took the bait and engaged in that same sort of contest. I truly believe if she focused on articulating policy, she would have won. Now, the left is continuing Hillary's folly. You guys appear unable to ignore these irrelevancies of crowd size and other side issues to direct attacks upon the man personally. No one who either didn't vote or voted for Trump cares. Well at least not enough to matter.

The answer to your question is that the DNC believed having the media as it's propaganda arm would be enough to defeat Trump. They were wrong.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by biochem   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:49 pm

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If democrats genuinely believe that an investigation of voter fraud will result in minimal findings, why are they so upset?

They should be cheering him on and laugh when he finds next to nothing!
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:55 pm

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biochem wrote:If democrats genuinely believe that an investigation of voter fraud will result in minimal findings, why are they so upset?

They should be cheering him on and laugh when he finds next to nothing!

Let's not tar all democrats, just the elite. Many rank and file want fair elections so that they can avoid having another Hillary foisted upon them.

http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=de2bc41f8324e6955ef65e0c9&id=98b9051aed

Btw, Biochem, check this article out. I hadn't considered this tactic, but it holds a certain elegance.
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Re: US Presidential Candidates
Post by biochem   » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:42 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
biochem wrote:If democrats genuinely believe that an investigation of voter fraud will result in minimal findings, why are they so upset?

They should be cheering him on and laugh when he finds next to nothing!

Let's not tar all democrats, just the elite. Many rank and file want fair elections so that they can avoid having another Hillary foisted upon them.

http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=de2bc41f8324e6955ef65e0c9&id=98b9051aed

Btw, Biochem, check this article out. I hadn't considered this tactic, but it holds a certain elegance.


It does.
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