Sorry to say

smr wrote:It's not a fact but a belief. I believe differently and that's OK.

It stops being ok when you start trying to force other people to live according to your (in this case ibjectively incorrect) beliefs through legislative action.

Your an idiot if you believe that I would force to stop a woman from having an abortion. I have said that I should not have to pay for it with my tax dollars. Yes, abortion is murder that I have said but I can not stop a woman from killing an unborn child. I have said that the government making Birth Control cheap/free using tax dollars...I would not be against. Would I like it...NO but it's better than murdering unborn babies.

So, have you watched the video's about PP? Yes or no because that's what being discussed.

smr wrote:Your an idiot if you believe that I would force to stop a woman from having an abortion. I have said that I should not have to pay for it with my tax dollars.

Which isn't happening. And everyone damn well knows it.

What you're *really* trying to do is to punish an organization that happens to provide abortion services by taking away their funding for EVERYTHING ELSE in an effort to stop them from providing abortions, thus removing the available options for women to have abortions, thus forcing them not to have them.


We're not actually stupid you know.

So, have you watched the video's about PP? Yes or no because that's what being discussed.

Why do you keep asking me if I've watched discredited videos? Is it that you simply don't care that they've been discredited, that their truth or falsity is totally unimportant to you all you care about is whether they can provoke some kind of emotional reaction?

No, I haven't bothered watching them and I'm not going to. BECAUSE THEY WERE FAKED / DISHONESTLY EDITED AND THERE'S NO POINT. I left the watching to the investigators, who watched, investigated, and came back in every single last instance with the finding that nothing untoward was going on.

Discussions of minimal reimbursement for storage and transport to research facilities... reimbursement that didn't even cover costs just mitigated them slightly... was misrepresented by the people making the videos as PP "selling fetuses" to make a profit. Which was bullshit.

Pictures of stillborn babies were passed off as aborted fetuses.

Etc...


So now you answer my question. Why are you displaying a total lack of concern that the information you keep pestering me to go look at is already known to be dishonest and manipulative?

So now you answer my question. Why are you displaying a total lack of concern that the information you keep pestering me to go look at is already known to be dishonest and manipulative?

So, what you are saying that you have only excerpts of the 12 hours of video because their dishonest and manipulative. Newsflash: whatever side a person is on, they are going to say that the other side is editing the videos. Watching those videos and seeing how these people operate, truly sickens me in my soul. I freely admit that only watched about 9 hours worth because I went from mildly pro-lifer to definite pro-lifer.

I suspect that you have taken only a few minutes of time to spout the rhetoric without truly researching...Now, I could be wrong but I do not think you have taken the time to truly research your position. Remember, we have been programmed for 40 years in schools and the media that abortions is OK. Is it right to take a life in the womb when it's murder to take the life outside womb?

smr wrote:

So now you answer my question. Why are you displaying a total lack of concern that the information you keep pestering me to go look at is already known to be dishonest and manipulative?

So, what you are saying that you have only excerpts of the 12 hours of video because their dishonest and manipulative.

Would you at least try to pay some level of attention.

ALL THE VIDEOS have been fully investigated. The facilities they were attempting to implicate in wrongdoing have been fully investigated. And there was NOTHING TO ANY OF IT.

Newsflash: whatever side a person is on, they are going to say that the other side is editing the videos

Newsflash: we're talking about investigations ordered by GOP state legislatures. More than one. So what was that you were saying?

I freely admit that only watched about 9 hours worth because I went from mildly pro-lifer to definite pro-lifer.

Congratulations, you fell for an emotionally manipulative con job. Enjoy your gullibility.

Oh I get that they are about to be investigated by Congress...were you not just saying that it was proven yet you do not have the guts to look at the videos for yourself. It's kinda hilarious that you except the pro-choice word that the videos are fake or that their edited but you will not watch even the first full abortion video. The states of Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma would disagree and that is just off the top of the head.

Now, I am gullible. Ok! However, I would say the light was shown on to a very dirty secret! I have the right for my public tax dollars to be used in moral and proper manner. I know lets use that money to kill unborn babies on treatments of veterans, addictions or mental health treatment to stop many of these mass shootings. One, PP can not survive without the Federal reimbursements for murdering unborn children. Two, I watched you say the Abortion videos were discredited...prove it logically!

So now you answer my question. Why are you displaying a total lack of concern that the information you keep pestering me to go look at is already known to be dishonest and manipulative?

So, what you are saying that you have only excerpts of the 12 hours of video because their dishonest and manipulative.

Would you at least try to pay some level of attention.

ALL THE VIDEOS have been fully investigated. The facilities they were attempting to implicate in wrongdoing have been fully investigated. And there was NOTHING TO ANY OF IT.

Newsflash: whatever side a person is on, they are going to say that the other side is editing the videos

Newsflash: we're talking about investigations ordered by GOP state legislatures. More than one. So what was that you were saying?

I freely admit that only watched about 9 hours worth because I went from mildly pro-lifer to definite pro-lifer.

Congratulations, you fell for an emotionally manipulative con job. Enjoy your gullibility.

smr wrote:Oh I get that they are about to be investigated by Congress..

Again, I ask you to pay attention.

Not about to be. Already done. Multiple times.

The Mass legislature launched an investigation. PP cleared.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/ ... story.html


"Oh of course commie liberal Massachusetts cleared them!"


The Indiana legislature launched an investigation. PP cleared:


http://bigstory.ap.org/article/14e6280c ... ter-videos


South Dakota... cleared:


http://m.kdlt.com/news/Health-Departmen ... e/34668964


Georgia... cleared:


http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/georgi ... ns-/nnJSk/


Pennsylvania... cleared:


http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/25 ... wrongdoing


Misourri... cleared:



http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0RS1UR20150928


Getting the fucking picture yet? And most of those are deep red state legislatures who would have loved nothing better than to be able to beat up on planned parenthood. But there was NOTHING FUCKING TO THIS because the videos have already been proven to be manipulated and faked.

were you not just saying that it was proven yet you do not have the guts to look at the videos for yourself.

In all seriousness what the fuck is wrong with you? What part of manipulated... editted... faked... do you not comprehend?


If we were having an argument over paleontology would you go on repeated rants that I refused to watch Jurassic Park? I mean if you think fiction is valid supporting subject matter for an argument...

You accuse of having no compassion or empathy. Personally, I beg to differ on that because I have total compassion and empathy for the unborn child. Notice, I did not say fetus but unborn child. In my mind, the unborn child has the same rights as a born child.

As for PP, 94% of the women who enter the clinic have an abortion. As a result, PP being a woman's clinic...bogus or a red herring. Third, each woman entering the clinic has a number of procedures that are charged to Medicare. Can we say taxpayer supported or billed.

As for Roe vs. Wade, that's here to stay regardless of my feelings and views / your feelings and views. I reiterate that I object to using my taxes to support the murder of unborn children.

94% of women entering a pp getting an abortion sounds like a high number, unless its of the subset of women who were going only for an abortion, I would be a bit distrustful of such a high number.....

After research, yes it is a number to distrust.

The numbers I get from their 2013-2014 year report (https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/6714/1996/2641/2013-2014_Annual_Report_FINAL_WEB_VERSION.pdf):

4.47 million sti tests/treatment
3.57 million contraceptive kits
0.93 million cancer tests
1.1 million pregnancy tests and prenatal services
0.13 million other treatments
0.32 million abortions


total treatments: 10.59 million.
.32/10.59 = 3.02% of treatments actually abortions.

If looking only at treatments, as opposed to all procedures:

39,000 std treatments
5,000 sterilisation procedures (casectomies and ligation)
35,000 hpv vaccinations
35,000 cancer treatments (Leep, cryo, colonoscopy etc)
47,000 uti treatments
17,00 other procedures
so 178,000 other direct treatments

178+328 = 506,000 direct treatments and abortions

328/506 = 64.8% of direct treatments being abortion. So looking only at the treatment side and discarding the prevention side, abortions still make up less than 2/3 of the actual treatments, still a distance from 94%.

A better look is probably an assumption of no repeat visitors for individual abortions, and look at the number of abortions( .328mill) divided by total visitors (~2.7 mill in doc, exact number not given). So .328 / 2.6 and 2.8 gives a range of 11.71-12.61%, a much more realistic number than 3,64, and 94% of women.


The reference I found for the 94% is unfortunately deleted now, but thanks to the web archive, : (https://web.archive.org/web/20150121203558/http://www.sba-list.org/sites/default/files/content/shared/12.31.14fact_sheet_pp_2013_2014_annual_report.pdf)

Gives the 94% figure by considering only abortion, prenatal care and adoption referals.

However, this is direct adoption and prenatal services, which a quick google shows is not always the case: PP partners with local health services for these, so these numbers may be only for the areas where these partnerships were otherwise unavailable. (https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-rocky-mountains/patient-resources/prenatal-plus-program(rockies) , https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/2214/0741/9848/Pregnancy_Options_Resource_List.pdf (michigan), https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pregnancy/pregnant-now-what/adoption (links to some adoption agencies), etc).


Given these factors, I am inclined to stick with the 12% as the best estimate, and for an organisation being vilified for abortions, an actual abortion rate of 12% is nowhere near as bad as opponents are suggesting, and given the restrictions some states have on abortion providers, is probably actually a decent number, given that they might be one of the few providers in an entire state of millions......

smr wrote:
As for PP, 94% of the women who enter the clinic have an abortion. As a result, PP being a woman's clinic...bogus or a red herring. Third, each woman entering the clinic has a number of procedures that are charged to Medicare. Can we say taxpayer supported or billed.

smr wrote:...

As for PP, 94% of the women who enter the clinic have an abortion. As a result, PP being a woman's clinic...bogus or a red herring. Third, each woman entering the clinic has a number of procedures that are charged to Medicare. Can we say taxpayer supported or billed.
...

That is a blatant lie and you shouldn´t be so ridiculously gullible.

More likely, that number is the percentage of women that does NOT have an abortion. Seriously, look at the numbers, then go and get a realitycheck because that claim is just so stupidly bogus that it´s pathetic that anyone falls for it.