Is Obama America's Rob Pierre?

Spacekiwi wrote:And what of the limiting of the liberal groups as well?

Maybe he just wanted to get the extremist nutters of both sides to stay on the sidelines.....

BrightSoul wrote:If that is the case then I gather that Sarah Palin would be Alexandra Tonkovich right? And Donald Trump would be Volkart Kalokanos.

Commies to the left of me and Plutocrats to the right... whats a poor little American to do?

Donnachaidh wrote:What the actual testimony (I'm excluding the commentary around the transcript excerpt, which was cut immediately after a question and before the IRS agent's response.) is that the direction the agents have been give is to divert the Tea Party-affilated groups' applications to political group secondary screening.

Based on that transcript, what their instructions are is to divert the applications of groups the are openly affiliated with a [i] political[/] movement into the political screening process.

That sounds quite reasonable to me and that's how I'd expect the IRS to handle those kinds of organizations (without regard for the group in question's politics).

I went to the House Ways and Means Committee (the one cited in the article) and I cannot find any evidence that the hearing cited in the article exists, the only thing on calender for August 1, 2013 is "Chairman Camp Announces Hearing on the Status of the Affordable Care Act Implementation". There was a hearing on July 27, 2013 "Camp Announces Hearing on the Status of Internal Revenue Service’s Review of Taxpayer Targeting Practices", the testimony was a report detailing the analysis of what happened and the corrective actions taken.

After several searches I was not able to find any primary sources (aside from the one the opinion piece you linked to used).

PeterZ wrote:Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I also couldn't find the primary source for the August 1 closed session the article referred to. The IRS might actually have stopped their targeting of conservative groups. I am as yet not persuaded they have.

I will stress that between 2010 and the 2012 elections only 4 TEA Party groups were approved their tax exempt status. Subsequently, that number might have increased but only after the election was over. The IRS slow walking applications truly impacted the elections.

If this state of affairs was not directed by the White House, the White House was oath bound to prevent this sort of abuse of our civil liberties. I find it curious that if nothing wrong was done by the IRS, why do they not submit the documents requested by Congressional investigators? The issue being investigated reflects potential abuse of power and infringement of civil liberties. I would think that such an investigation would transcend partisan politics.

http://www.examiner.com/article/irs-tea-party-targeting-scandal-needs-serious-closure

Donnachaidh wrote:What the actual testimony (I'm excluding the commentary around the transcript excerpt, which was cut immediately after a question and before the IRS agent's response.) is that the direction the agents have been give is to divert the Tea Party-affilated groups' applications to political group secondary screening.

Based on that transcript, what their instructions are is to divert the applications of groups the are openly affiliated with a [i] political[/] movement into the political screening process.

That sounds quite reasonable to me and that's how I'd expect the IRS to handle those kinds of organizations (without regard for the group in question's politics).

I went to the House Ways and Means Committee (the one cited in the article) and I cannot find any evidence that the hearing cited in the article exists, the only thing on calender for August 1, 2013 is "Chairman Camp Announces Hearing on the Status of the Affordable Care Act Implementation". There was a hearing on July 27, 2013 "Camp Announces Hearing on the Status of Internal Revenue Service’s Review of Taxpayer Targeting Practices", the testimony was a report detailing the analysis of what happened and the corrective actions taken.

After several searches I was not able to find any primary sources (aside from the one the opinion piece you linked to used).

Donnachaidh wrote:I only argue that there is no evidence the White House instructed the IRS to target those groups, I completely agree that it is the responsibility of the Executive Branch (headed by the current administration but only the top level management changes between administrations) to prevent that kind of thing. While they did not prevent it, it was an investigation ordered by the Attorney General that revealed what happened and let the public know.

I don't know whether or not the targeting is still going on. The report I found on the Ways & Means Committee's website did say that the IRS has set up a special process to expedite any applications that had not been processed after 120 days (which is admittedly still a long time).

namelessfly wrote:

BrightSoul wrote:If that is the case then I gather that Sarah Palin would be Alexandra Tonkovich right? And Donald Trump would be Volkart Kalokanos.

Commies to the left of me and Plutocrats to the right... whats a poor little American to do?

How does Palin qualify as a plutocrat?

PeterZ wrote:I suppose my inclination is to disbelieve this administration even absent that direct evidence. That might be argued as prejudice or simply prudence on my part considering the response to the Bengazi attack. The truly awful part is that such an argument will have weight on either side. That is a sad state of affairs for a President of the USA.

Donnachaidh wrote:I only argue that there is no evidence the White House instructed the IRS to target those groups, I completely agree that it is the responsibility of the Executive Branch (headed by the current administration but only the top level management changes between administrations) to prevent that kind of thing. While they did not prevent it, it was an investigation ordered by the Attorney General that revealed what happened and let the public know.

I don't know whether or not the targeting is still going on. The report I found on the Ways & Means Committee's website did say that the IRS has set up a special process to expedite any applications that had not been processed after 120 days (which is admittedly still a long time).

Donnachaidh wrote:I generally subscribe to Hanlon's razor, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

PeterZ wrote:I suppose my inclination is to disbelieve this administration even absent that direct evidence. That might be argued as prejudice or simply prudence on my part considering the response to the Bengazi attack. The truly awful part is that such an argument will have weight on either side. That is a sad state of affairs for a President of the USA.

PeterZ wrote:OK, believe he lied 'cause he is stupid. Or perhaps he sicked the IRS on his political enemies because he was stupid enough to do it but smart enough to avoid being directly implicated. Or too stupid to realize how his cronies will run with their new found authority.

Whatever. The man is an awful President and I prudently disbelieve what he says pending independent confirmation that he didn't lie. Whether because he is motivated by malice or stupidity doesn't matter. He has proven to be unreliable in his statements too often to ignore.

Donnachaidh wrote:I generally subscribe to Hanlon's razor, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"