Death of a moral panic?

This might be the beginning of the end for the neopuritan fight against both prostitution and prostitutes: Last week Somaly Mam, one of the spiritual leaders, has been pretty much exposed as a fraud by Newsweek! (background and summary)

Experts in sex trafficking say that…the scale and dynamics of the situation are often misunderstood, in part because of lurid, sensationalistic stories such as those told by Mam and her “girls”

Apparently this has started a bit of an avalanche both from real experts in the field speaking out and (former) supporters distancing themselves.

NYT wrote:…Mam’s…portrayal of all sex workers as victims in need of saving encouraged raids and rescue operations that only hurt the sex workers themselves.
[...]
Now Ms. Mam has been exposed before her donors and the Western media who anointed her and made fighting sex trafficking a kind of industry in itself, while sex workers suffered the consequences. Will Ms. Mam’s supporters consider the price of what they’ve been sold?

rich donors would rather support anti trafficking groups with an…agenda to stop all sex work, than those that help sex workers and their children get out of poverty
[...]
When consenting sex workers are arrested or “rescued,” their children suffer. With their mothers gone and no money or food coming in, they must find work, even though they are children…

There were Kristofs [another anti-prostitution activist] then too, freaking out about the white slavery traffic. They wanted to hear the most lurid stories possible and then publicize them to make points about the evils of prostitution. They didn’t bother fact-checking either. And time and time again, these stories about young women didn’t pan out. The impact of this movement was to make sex work illegal [in the USA], making it far more dangerous, as it largely remains today.

And I seriously hope the War on (some) Drugs is next.

Perhaps I am missing some necessary back story or overall briefing on the subject at hand. Respectfully, I do not understand your post. Sorry. No disrespect intended. HB of CJ (old coot) LT.CM.

Seems like yet another variation on the Ye Olde Charity Scam to me. Basically some con artist takes a real problem (starving children, natural disaster, slavery etc), tells some wild stories, collects a lot of money diverting it from the real charities addressing the issue. Tends to be successful because people want to help and con artists are a lot better at salesmanship than your average real charity is. Lots of people in need are harmed because of crooks of this type and so it should be punished a lot more severely than it is.

Seems to be an argument for legalization of prostitution
. I do not disagree. The legal brothels in Nevada seem to eliminate the worst aspects of the profession. Given the promiscuity of so many amateur woman, the public health argument is stupid. May be the cops would arrest more murderers, rapists and robbers if they were not so determined to hassle bookers.

Germany solved this problem 70 years ago. Then the morally religious ressurect it every few years, over here, and suddenly it is a problem.

When I was in the Navy I visited a number of places where prostitution was legal, places where it was technically illegal but not enforced, and places where they spent as much time and money as we do here in the USA trying to prevent it.

I found that the social disruption associated with prostitution, and the negative effects on the hookers themselves, were directly proportional to the government’s efforts to Put A Stop To It. In places where prostitution was legal and the government reasonably honest, I never saw a pimp. Not one. I never saw underage runaways kidnapped, enslaved, and forced to turn tricks for fear of their lives. I saw very few girls who spent all their money on a drug habit.

All those things, and worse, are rampant in places where the government has “cracked down” on prostitution, including right here in the good ol’ USA. There is not any less prostitution, but it is more expensive and dangerous (for all parties). Violence, drug abuse, and unmentionable diseases abound.

Based on all that evidence, any rational person would conclude that outlawing prostitution is counterproductive, dangerous, idiotic and futile.

Unfortunately, the world is filled with self-righteous assholes. They choose to be offended by things other people do that don’t affect them directly, and are really none of their damned business. They are eternally tormented by the conviction that Somebody, Somewhere, is Doing Something They Don’t Approve Of, and driven by a compulsion to Do Something About It At Any Cost. They get together and campaign to have the government ban (some) drugs, gambling, guns, prostitution, nudity, Rock-N-Roll, Naughty Words, gays, and anything else that upsets their tiny little minds. Ban The Bad Things!!

While I agree that alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, and even prostitution can be harmful both to individuals and to society, the consequences that arise when the government attempts to Stop Them From Doing That are easily a hundred times worse. It took our grandparents 13 years of Hell to figure out that banning alcohol was a bad idea, but they never learned the whole lesson. They chose to believe that alcohol was somehow special, that even though prohibition hadn’t worked on booze, it would work on everything else, and maybe it would work on booze if they could just figure out what went wrong. Even today there are idiots that would reinstate the Volstead Act if they believed they had half a chance of pulling it off.

It takes a special kind of stupid to persist in pushing for prohibitions after such a long history of failure and futility, but there is no shortage of busybodies. “It’s For Their Own Good! We must Protect The Children!” they cry. I say the effects of hiding sex from the kids are far more damaging than allowing it to be open, normal, and No Big Deal could ever be. I want to ask the anti-gay crusaders: “Have you ever seen them doing those “unnatural acts” that you are so inflamed about? No? So, you feel offended by something you believe they might do? For this, you would violate their rights?"

I don’t see how other people doing things I don’t agree with harms me, or limits my rights. That should be the only standard for taking the extreme step of getting the government to infringe on their rights. I’m sure we all do things that are important to us, that SOMEbody would object to. Should they have the right to take away our rights?
-------------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

I agree.

Pointy-Headed Liberal

Imaginos1892 wrote:When I was in the Navy I visited a number of places where prostitution was legal, places where it was technically illegal but not enforced, and places where they spent as much time and money as we do here in the USA trying to prevent it.

I found that the social disruption associated with prostitution, and the negative effects on the hookers themselves, were directly proportional to the government’s efforts to Put A Stop To It. In places where prostitution was legal and the government reasonably honest, I never saw a pimp. Not one. I never saw underage runaways kidnapped, enslaved, and forced to turn tricks for fear of their lives. I saw very few girls who spent all their money on a drug habit.

All those things, and worse, are rampant in places where the government has “cracked down” on prostitution, including right here in the good ol’ USA. There is not any less prostitution, but it is more expensive and dangerous (for all parties). Violence, drug abuse, and unmentionable diseases abound.

Based on all that evidence, any rational person would conclude that outlawing prostitution is counterproductive, dangerous, idiotic and futile.

Unfortunately, the world is filled with self-righteous assholes. They choose to be offended by things other people do that don’t affect them directly, and are really none of their damned business. They are eternally tormented by the conviction that Somebody, Somewhere, is Doing Something They Don’t Approve Of, and driven by a compulsion to Do Something About It At Any Cost. They get together and campaign to have the government ban (some) drugs, gambling, guns, prostitution, nudity, Rock-N-Roll, Naughty Words, gays, and anything else that upsets their tiny little minds. Ban The Bad Things!!

While I agree that alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, and even prostitution can be harmful both to individuals and to society, the consequences that arise when the government attempts to Stop Them From Doing That are easily a hundred times worse. It took our grandparents 13 years of Hell to figure out that banning alcohol was a bad idea, but they never learned the whole lesson. They chose to believe that alcohol was somehow special, that even though prohibition hadn’t worked on booze, it would work on everything else, and maybe it would work on booze if they could just figure out what went wrong. Even today there are idiots that would reinstate the Volstead Act if they believed they had half a chance of pulling it off.

It takes a special kind of stupid to persist in pushing for prohibitions after such a long history of failure and futility, but there is no shortage of busybodies. “It’s For Their Own Good! We must Protect The Children!” they cry. I say the effects of hiding sex from the kids are far more damaging than allowing it to be open, normal, and No Big Deal could ever be. I want to ask the anti-gay crusaders: “Have you ever seen them doing those “unnatural acts” that you are so inflamed about? No? So, you feel offended by something you believe they might do? For this, you would violate their rights?"

I don’t see how other people doing things I don’t agree with harms me, or limits my rights. That should be the only standard for taking the extreme step of getting the government to infringe on their rights. I’m sure we all do things that are important to us, that SOMEbody would object to. Should they have the right to take away our rights?
-------------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Imaginos1892 wrote:When I was in the Navy I visited a number of places where prostitution was legal, places where it was technically illegal but not enforced, and places where they spent as much time and money as we do here in the USA trying to prevent it.

!!

I spent 22 years in the Navy and never saw a need to pay for sex when when there are plenty of "Willing" sexual partners of the opposite sex looking to hook up being in a short term or long term.

Perhaps the US should just legalize it, license it, and tax it like any other corporate/private business. In doing so perhaps the jails will not be so full. Just MHO.

To really make a dent in prison population, politicians would have to tackle the elephant in the room: Drug prohibition.

Imaginos1892 wrote:...Unfortunately, the world is filled with self-righteous assholes. They choose to be offended by things other people do that don’t affect them directly, and are really none of their damned business. They are eternally tormented by the conviction that Somebody, Somewhere, is Doing Something They Don’t Approve Of, and driven by a compulsion to Do Something About It At Any Cost. They get together and campaign to have the government ban (some) drugs, gambling, guns, prostitution, nudity, Rock-N-Roll, Naughty Words, gays, and anything else that upsets their tiny little minds. Ban The Bad Things!!

While I agree that alcoholism, drug addiction, gambling, and even prostitution can be harmful both to individuals and to society, the consequences that arise when the government attempts to Stop Them From Doing That are easily a hundred times worse. It took our grandparents 13 years of Hell to figure out that banning alcohol was a bad idea, but they never learned the whole lesson. They chose to believe that alcohol was somehow special, that even though prohibition hadn’t worked on booze, it would work on everything else, and maybe it would work on booze if they could just figure out what went wrong. Even today there are idiots that would reinstate the Volstead Act if they believed they had half a chance of pulling it off.

It takes a special kind of stupid to persist in pushing for prohibitions after such a long history of failure and futility, but there is no shortage of busybodies. “It’s For Their Own Good! We must Protect The Children!” they cry. I say the effects of hiding sex from the kids are far more damaging than allowing it to be open, normal, and No Big Deal could ever be. I want to ask the anti-gay crusaders: “Have you ever seen them doing those “unnatural acts” that you are so inflamed about? No? So, you feel offended by something you believe they might do? For this, you would violate their rights?"

I don’t see how other people doing things I don’t agree with harms me, or limits my rights. That should be the only standard for taking the extreme step of getting the government to infringe on their rights. I’m sure we all do things that are important to us, that SOMEbody would object to. Should they have the right to take away our rights?
-------------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Hear! Hear!
It may be that I’m a cynical old coot, but when looking at a problem like Prohibition I usually try to follow the advice given by Deep Throat to Woodward and Bernstein:
“Follow the money”!
Who benefits by Prohibition, and always have? The criminal element!
In the ‘20’s during alcohol Prohibition in the US during and after the repeal:?
Organized crime!
Same with drugs today, and the illicit sex trade, they are skimming Billions per year.