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Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.

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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:35 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Physical laws and engineering principles that change for the convenience of the plot are a hallmark of bad writing and Hollywood Stupid.


This is what we are trying to explain to The E - that TLJ main fault is because it violates the internal logic of SW universe for plot's sake (and actually without any real need to do this - just because crew was lazy & did not want to bother with actual thinking).
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by The E   » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:13 pm

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And what I'm trying to explain to you is that I think a lot of what you regard as violations of internal logic stems from an "internal" logic that, in my opinion, is not really supported by the films.

If you disagree with me, that's fine. We all look for different things in the media we enjoy; Personally, I'd love to be able to make you see this film the way that I do, but the amount of effort I am willing to expend on explaining my viewpoint to you has reached its limit. I'll leave this thread alone now, so you can dance in joy that the evil european socialist has been beaten back by your superior logic and facts, as your "internal logic" demands.
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Daryl   » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:11 pm

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For me even Space Opera has to have consistent rules. I can accept things that current physics says are impossible, but once the rules are set out they have to be maintained. Honorverse physics has perpetual motion machines providing almost limitless power, but it is the same in every book.
Dropping gravity dumb iron bombs in deep space breaks so many rules of logic and physics that I just can't accept it. I'll still watch the movies, but will find it harder to immerse myself.
After all there have always been anomalies. When every MBT is built low to minimise their profile, building enormously tall and slow walkers to carry weaponry makes no sense. Starships traveling in excess of C, crashlanding without continent wide devestation. Combat droids and Storm Troopers who never hit their targets.
When even todays wet navies can't see each other during a battle, maybe a split screen may be the way to show what's happening at each end.
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Dilandu   » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:36 pm

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Daryl wrote:For me even Space Opera has to have consistent rules. I can accept things that current physics says are impossible, but once the rules are set out they have to be maintained. Honorverse physics has perpetual motion machines providing almost limitless power, but it is the same in every book.


Well, Honorverse have it's own contradiction - like they have faster-than-light impeller detectors for centuries, but nobody even tried to use them for communication purposes (just switching on/off impeller of designated communication ship in Morse code) - but they are rare.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:53 am

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Just as a minor note, on Reddit, someone pointed out that if you look at the footage from Ep8 and calculate speed using the disney-canon size of the First Order Dreadnaught, the StarFortresses fly at less than half the speed of the Ep4 Y-Wing.
So, for Ep8, they came up with a craft that is a bigger target, slower, less agile, more expensive and considerably more destructive to its allies when it explodes (Ep4 has a Y-wing explode less than 10 meters away from another Y-wing which was not destroyed by the explosion. Ep8 had one StarFortress take out three others at a larger range when it went kablooie...).

Prime metaphor material there...
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:51 pm

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The E wrote:In fact, the existence of those bombers, and the fact that they actually did work, puts a giant nail in your argument that it works that way. You can be angry about it all you want, curse the writers or producers all you want, but them's the facts.

That’s your answer? “It’s not stupid because the scriptwriters were too stupid to know how stupid it was!”

That movie piled up whole new categories of Hollywood Stupid, things nobody was ever stupid enough to do before. Ed Wood could have done a better job.
———————————
I used to live on a farm. I know what bullshit smells like.
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:03 pm

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Well, it wasn't that bad, especially in comparison with SW8. Of course, in comparison with SW8 even the infamous "Holiday Special" wouldn't look completely hopeless.

The short summary: "How Palplatine swindled Skywalker's out of their homestead."
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:46 pm

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P.S. And as I predicted - the "imaginative Holdo maneuver" (you were saying, The E? :lol: ) was written away as pure dumb luck that is impossible to repeat. As I predicted, Disney considered this idea a awful trash in retrospect & since they could not just cut it out completely, they decided to make sure that no one ever would try anything like that in canon SW.

Sorry, The E. It was not "a matter for imagination", it was dumb idea of lazy scriptwriter, and Disney confirmed that.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:46 pm

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But hey, there are new idiocy to replace old one. Now you could hyperjump from one planet atmosphere to another! No need to bother with space battle at all - just hyperjump nukes first & landing troops next right onto enemy planets!
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Mourning Star Wars - Leaks Destroy Hope.
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:36 pm

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Well, lets see. Using a "bomber" that has racks like a B-17 or one of the WW II German bombers (Verticle racks in the bay) dropping dumb "gravity" bombs when moving in the opposite direction as some serious velocity- and somebody having to climb down into the bombay to manualy release the bombs (which somehow the target) SEVERAL minutes after the bombadier hit the rlease switch. Dam, that's interesting.

So the massive First Order Star Fortress (whatever) that is chaseing the Rebel Fleet has been slowly gaining on them and has been picking off one ship after another as it gains ground. The Rebels are running out of fuel...but they are going to hang together as a group when they could scatter like a flock of birds......because taking the chance they could refuel somehwere they (each one different) could reach with what they have left. Humm

Then there is ONE ship left and the high Commander/General who is the only one on board after the Pilot/navigator is killed, turns the ship and charges the First Order ship, timing her jump to light speed for just after the ship would intersectd the the First Ordes ship.....and NONE of the weapons on the First Order ship are either registered on or tracking the target so they can fire when the -highly agitated- order is given to destory it. And she hit's her target and there is something odd going on where she hits it like parts of the ship are trying to go elsewhere. But the Fortress just lumbers (or rushes) on showing no effect of something that size and going really dam fast hit's it. Should have been at least one hell of a bump.
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