PeterZ wrote:gcomeau wrote:
So we're just going to ignore where I just told you that no, science does not say there was nothing before the Big Bang.... that science has competing models that differ over whether there was a "before" the Big Bang or not, and that those models are still under testing to try to figure out which are right?
That testing is still underway. it will likely be underway for a very long time indeed. In the meantime saying "we don't know" about what, if anything, preceded the Big Bang is not a lack of commitment. It is honesty.
Do tell. What assumptions does this line of inquiry entail?
The same assumptions that all scientific inquiry entails. the absolute minimum necessary.
Do you have a brief description about what those various models look like? Am I to take your word for it that these models exist and their insight into an area that even Steven Hawking asserts that neither time and space exist? Not just that but he postulates that since time and space does not exit, then he postulates that nothing could act/change in this period, including God.
I don't ignore your points, I am politely waiting for you to describe what alternatives there might be. What other scientific models are there about the primal cause and what do they predict? You have done nothing but claim they exist. Fine, bring them forth that we may discuss them.
A couple examples...
Steinhardt and Turok's Cyclic model:
http://physics.princeton.edu/~steinh/dm2004.pdf
Note, this model entails the universe quite possibly being eternal with the Big Bang being one in a series. No "primal cause".
Or there's Linde's Inflationary model:
http://web.stanford.edu/~alinde/1032226.pdf
Note, again, this model entails the larger universe (or the multi-verse) being possibly eternal, with the local universe we inhabit which was produced by the Big Bang 14 and change billion years ago not being all that there is. Again, no "Primal Cause"
(Linde's model recently got a boost from some test data that confirmed one of it's predictions btw)
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/marc ... 31714.html