Rediscovery of Technology

smr wrote:Many people doubt that we have had advanced technology in the past. Well my challenge to these individuals is to watch the 10 minute video and disprove the artifacts presented in this 10 minute video. It's put up or shut up time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__hC57czaA

and the second video is about 9 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHd8ysNaQ

So, you believe people outside of the last 200 years are stupid.

If you believe a gear and a ball bearing are "advanced" you sir are delusional in your arrogance about the "brilliance" of modern man.

Without all the infrastructure surrounding you and I, even the most brilliant and knowledgeable "modern" human would look stupid without the supporting infrastructure.

Egyptians knew how to electroplate gold for instance using crude batteries. This knowledge vanished for 3500 years or was it 3000? The Greeks used "ball bearings" to move giant stones at the temple of delphi. Took Archeologists hundreds of years to figure out what the divots evenly spaced on the floor of the temple were for. Ancient peoples were not stupid. Just did not have all the infrastructure around them that you and I take for granted.

If a certain infrastructure is destroyed along with those who contain its knowledge, it takes surprisingly few humans to die, or move on, to obliterate the industry dependent on this infrastructure. Especially in an era when there was no printing press. Books are very rare and VERY expensive items before the printing press. Add in peoples like the Egyptians did not really have writing system. Phonetic alphabet did not appear until the Greeks. Meaning any writing style previous to this was reserved to only the upper class. Guess which class of people gets axed first when conquered? The upper class.

Actually, I have stated that Man has been more advanced in the past and have been destroyed more than once. Studying the Middle East we can see the remains of a Great War (Nuclear or beyond those type of weapons). In Pakistan, their is a remains of a civilization that was destroyed by nuclear weapons. The burst radius of the weapon is still way above normal radioactive levels. In China/India their is a dessert that still has a much higher level of radioactivity and has where parts of floor were turned to glass just like what happened in New Mexico when they tested the 1st atomic weapon.

Second, in Egypt many people know their was an old and new kingdom. However, what many people do not know or realize that in Egypt the rains in Ethiopia quit falling for the majority of the 200 year period. The rains in Ethiopia are what causes the spring floods and bring the black nutrient rich top soil. The Egyptian civilization lost much of technology due to climate shift which caused a massive drought and the people turned on each other.

The oldest known city in the world is Gobeki Tepe in Turkey. It's about 150 miles Southwest of Mount Arafat. This city was probably the most advanced city of the time period after the global flood about 11,000 BC. The strange thing is the people abandoned the city but they buried it in sand before moving on. They writing was hieroglyphics and appears the culture was global. The Egyptians are descendants of this culture and their language is derivative of this language. (It could be just the writing is a descendant of civilization in Turkey!) What the real amazing fact is they have only uncovered 5% of the city.

This is one of my must see sights. Now, for ball bearings look up what type of metals make up the ball bearing. Opps is that a light bulb going off in the brain. It's not noteworthy that we have found a ball bearing from the ancient past or that some the ball bearings had a groove cut into the middle of the ball bearing. (Does not the groove indicate they had machining technology.) Look at the metals that make up the ball bearing and look what type of technology it takes to make up that metal alloy!

wastedfly wrote:

smr wrote:Many people doubt that we have had advanced technology in the past. Well my challenge to these individuals is to watch the 10 minute video and disprove the artifacts presented in this 10 minute video. It's put up or shut up time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__hC57czaA

and the second video is about 9 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAHd8ysNaQ

So, you believe people outside of the last 200 years are stupid.

If you believe a gear and a ball bearing are "advanced" you sir are delusional in your arrogance about the "brilliance" of modern man.

Without all the infrastructure surrounding you and I, even the most brilliant and knowledgeable "modern" human would look stupid without the supporting infrastructure.

Egyptians knew how to electroplate gold for instance using crude batteries. This knowledge vanished for 3500 years or was it 3000? The Greeks used "ball bearings" to move giant stones at the temple of delphi. Took Archeologists hundreds of years to figure out what the divots evenly spaced on the floor of the temple were for. Ancient peoples were not stupid. Just did not have all the infrastructure around them that you and I take for granted.

If a certain infrastructure is destroyed along with those who contain its knowledge, it takes surprisingly few humans to die, or move on, to obliterate the industry dependent on this infrastructure. Especially in an era when there was no printing press. Books are very rare and VERY expensive items before the printing press. Add in peoples like the Egyptians did not really have writing system. Phonetic alphabet did not appear until the Greeks. Meaning any writing style previous to this was reserved to only the upper class. Guess which class of people gets axed first when conquered? The upper class.

smr wrote:Actually, I have stated that Man has been more advanced in the past and have been destroyed more than once. Studying the Middle East we can see the remains of a Great War (Nuclear or beyond those type of weapons). In Pakistan, their is a remains of a civilization that was destroyed by nuclear weapons. The burst radius of the weapon is still way above normal radioactive levels. In China/India their is a dessert that still has a much higher level of radioactivity and has where parts of floor were turned to glass just like what happened in New Mexico when they tested the 1st atomic weapon.

Second, in Egypt many people know their was an old and new kingdom. However, what many people do not know or realize that in Egypt the rains in Ethiopia quit falling for the majority of the 200 year period. The rains in Ethiopia are what causes the spring floods and bring the black nutrient rich top soil. The Egyptian civilization lost much of technology due to climate shift which caused a massive drought and the people turned on each other.

The oldest known city in the world is Gobeki Tepe in Turkey. It's about 150 miles Southwest of Mount Arafat. This city was probably the most advanced city of the time period after the global flood about 11,000 BC. The strange thing is the people abandoned the city but they buried it in sand before moving on. They writing was hieroglyphics and appears the culture was global. The Egyptians are descendants of this culture and their language is derivative of this language. (It could be just the writing is a descendant of civilization in Turkey!) What the real amazing fact is they have only uncovered 5% of the city.

This is one of my must see sights. Now, for ball bearings look up what type of metals make up the ball bearing. Opps is that a light bulb going off in the brain. It's not noteworthy that we have found a ball bearing from the ancient past or that some the ball bearings had a groove cut into the middle of the ball bearing. (Does not the groove indicate they had machining technology.) Look at the metals that make up the ball bearing and look what type of technology it takes to make up that metal alloy!

1. Or the remains of large meteorites that blew up like the one in Siberia in the early 1900's. That was like a nuclear explosion, and considering much of the Earth has radioactive material in it to one degree or another, an elevated level of radiation isn't that unusual.

2. The first part is very likely true, but the second part?> That sounds more like conjecture a will to believe it because you want it to be true no matter what. There is documented proof of the history of Egypt clear back to before the beginning of civilization.

And a minor note, there was no global flood.

3. The ball bearings? Competent craftsmen can make those easily enough with files or just by rubbing them with stones to get the shape needed/desired. Or it's one of a number of odd occurrences that are naturally made but look man made.

smr wrote:This is one of my must see sights. Now, for ball bearings look up what type of metals make up the ball bearing. Opps is that a light bulb going off in the brain. SNIP Look at the metals that make up the ball bearing and look what type of technology it takes to make up that metal alloy!

Get a light bulb. Every metal is "alloyed". It is "alloyed" with whatever material is local to the ore mined. It is only in modern times where we have the ability to refine ores to the point where we get to CHOOSE the alloy material and quantity.

Offhand I would say the groove is from the lost wax process used to create it. Creating something "roughly" round is easy. The real question, not named or stated is: HOW round are those balls? PS. That video never even stated if those "ball bearings" were even made of metal. For all I know, they were stone. Stone balls made the same way folks have made stone balls since the dawn of time.

Put down the crack pipe. Nuclear war... HAHA. Good grief, you do not even know that the "glass" is from the Volcanic Deccan traps covering vast areas of India/Pakistan. You know, one of the largest outpouring of volcanic magma on earth, covering vast portions of India... Oh, by the way, you may wish to look at a map. There Is no dessert bordering India/China. There is this big ass ol' mountain range known as the Himalayas...

PS. Large portions of India are home to most of the worlds Thorium...

Actually, the site is somewhere in India but I was using the China/ India border as a reference. Now, I have never been to the site. For all I know, it could have a comet, asteroid, or other object. Now, you being a college educated man know that the Indians of India have sacred texts that go back up 35,000 years ago give or take. Robert Oppenheimer the creator of the atom bomb used some of the Vedic texts as inspiration to create the atom bomb.

It's funny that you deny their was a global flood. That means over 300 cultures around the world are wrong and you are right! The Geophysicists at TGS are wrong then! They are rarely ever wrong because they are paid a whole lot of money to be right. Now some of them are Christians but some of them are not. The Sumerians, Indians, Egyptians, Greeks, and many other cultures have a global flood story not to mention the Hopi and Navajo here in North American.

During the time between the old and new kingdom, Egypt was invaded and split into 2 kingdoms. Also, Egypt suffered severe drought because the rains from Ethiopia did not come. It's documented! So look it up and educate yourself rather than opening the mouth and belittling others. I noticed that only the items that you wanted to dispute are being commented on. Am I assume that you could not disprove the rest because their is no rebuttal to the other items and objects. The whole point of the exercise is that videos give enough good evidence to state that history has made an error. The Greek/Egyptian invented the steam engine...Hero of Alexandria!

Part of the problem is how I stated the argument. I did not state or express how high of a technological level. Personally, I think we had a higher tech level than today's levels. Some type of war, economic crisis, epidemic, and/or severe climate change caused the culture to collapse. I am only theorizing or projecting off a limited set of data points.

smr wrote:Actually, the site is somewhere in India but I was using the China/ India border as a reference. Now, I have never been to the site. For all I know, it could have a comet, asteroid, or other object. Now, you being a college educated man know that the Indians of India have sacred texts that go back up 35,000 years ago give or take. Robert Oppenheimer the creator of the atom bomb used some of the Vedic texts as inspiration to create the atom bomb.

It's funny that you deny their was a global flood. That means over 300 cultures around the world are wrong and you are right! The Geophysicists at TGS are wrong then! They are rarely ever wrong because they are paid a whole lot of money to be right. Now some of them are Christians but some of them are not. The Sumerians, Indians, Egyptians, Greeks, and many other cultures have a global flood story not to mention the Hopi and Navajo here in North American.

During the time between the old and new kingdom, Egypt was invaded and split into 2 kingdoms. Also, Egypt suffered severe drought because the rains from Ethiopia did not come. It's documented! So look it up and educate yourself rather than opening the mouth and belittling others. I noticed that only the items that you wanted to dispute are being commented on. Am I assume that you could not disprove the rest because their is no rebuttal to the other items and objects. The whole point of the exercise is that videos give enough good evidence to state that history has made an error. The Greek/Egyptian invented the steam engine...Hero of Alexandria!

Part of the problem is how I stated the argument. I did not state or express how high of a technological level. Personally, I think we had a higher tech level than today's levels. Some type of war, economic crisis, epidemic, and/or severe climate change caused the culture to collapse. I am only theorizing or projecting off a limited set of data points.

I'm not sure how accurate the vedic texts are (anything can be said to be true if its a religious text, so just say I have some doubts about the validity of any claims of any human text being over 5-7,000 years old).

As far as I know there is no geological proof that there ever was any global flood. There isn't enough water on Earth to cover the entire planet. We can read the geological record fairly well back to hundreds of millions to billions of years ago. There have been periods when areas flooded, but the entire world? no. That would leave significant signs of its presence world wide, especially if it happened only 5-6,000 years ago. That sign would be visible to any and -all- geologists and not something that could be hidden or kept a secret.

The Sumerians, Indians, Egyptians, Greeks are in a relatively small geological area and most of them live alongside rivers, so it can be easily taken that massive flooding for them would be the entire world (excepting the Greeks). Most early civilizations were founded along rivers and needed the waters to be able to grow their crops. The Hopi and Navajo Indians? What about the other Indian cultures in the rest of North America? What about Central and South America? Do they also have global flooding stories? I don't think so.

No one is arguing that Egypt was split into two realms and had a period of chaos between the New and Old kingdom periods. We know there is an ebb and flow of the river depending on the rains at the source so I'm wondering why you're harping on the rains in the Ethiopia. We're not disputing that. Sheesh..

The Greeks knew what steam could do in sealed containers and balls with tubes, but they never -did- anything with it. That would happen many thousands of years later. Egypt has always been a very conservative country, they liked things how they were. So I seriously doubt there were ever steam engines in ancient Greece and/or Egypt. In fact I can confidentially say those countries never had any steam engines until after they were invented in northern Europe.

The videos you link seem to take odd instances and hammer rather wild theories into them to make them fit an already preconceived notions of what the person on the video wants to see/believe. No matter how outlandish the theories seem.

Zakharra wrote: The Greeks knew what steam could do in sealed containers and balls with tubes, but they never -did- anything with it.

Except for the occasional thing like using it to spin figures so that they seemed to dance...
The Greeks knew about water pressures and how heat could be used to open and close temple doors by means of concealed water tanks, counterweights and ropes wrapped around pillars.
Of course, since they had plenty of slaves to do their bidding, they never had a reason to see mechanical engineering as much more than an odd hobby.

Zakharra wrote: As far as I know there is no geological proof that there ever was any global flood. There isn't enough water on Earth to cover the entire planet. We can read the geological record fairly well back to hundreds of millions to billions of years ago. There have been periods when areas flooded, but the entire world? no. That would leave significant signs of its presence world wide, especially if it happened only 5-6,000 years ago. That sign would be visible to any and -all- geologists and not something that could be hidden or kept a secret.

Enjoy your beliefs. Personally, I will believe in science.

Your faith in Geologists not being blind is unwarranted.

Actually there is evidence all over the place that current geology has no explanation for most major geological features and their causes under Uniformity.

For Example: Take the shale formations of the Grand Canyon that go from California to Texas and from Mexico to Wyoming. To get the stratification in its present form, it had to be laid down in moving water/mud. A moving mud stream thousand miles long/wide and over 2000meters deep?(more likely multiple mud flows over this vast area) An even larger example would be the layers extending from SE Asia down through Australia. We can literally drive a thousand miles and obtain the exact same rocks with the exact same composition, stratification, and clast sorting.

Why do we know this?

In the science lab where we can repeatedly test how stratification forms, it is impossible to create those fine layers under stagnate conditions. One cannot obtain the fine stratification combined with the sorting of clast size under stagnate conditions. It is impossible. It must be in a moving mud slurry. The immense layers seen at the Grand Canyon could not possibly have been laid down under stagnate lake/ocean conditions. It must be from a moving mud flow.

(We see modern mud flows obtain this stratification along with sorting of clast size all over the place.) A stagnant yearly sediment deposition gets the fine layers, but not the sorting of clast size.

The second major compelling piece of evidence is when one adds in the severe lack or mostly the complete void of varves burrowing through the layers of mud as is done in Stagnate ocean/lake layered mud demonstrating that it was never built up layer by layer, year by year as is described in dumbed down high school text books. In fact, the evidence was so absolutely fool proof(other than the fools who still hang onto their beliefs otherwise) that the Grand Canyon National Park service took down the signs describing the Grand Canyon sedimentation layers being built up layer by layer in a lake/ocean bed. Yet all the high school/college texts keep blindly adhering to junk "science."

No modern Geologist believes in conformity anymore. They nearly all believe in massive cataclysmic events interspersed by large periods of time to explain the geologic features as we have had multitudes of documented events showing the way.

Is this positional moving of Geological thought very close to resembling a global flood? Let you decide.

PS. We currently have no acknowledged trigger event capable of creating the massive ice age. To create the massive ice age one needs much warmer oceans than is current today combined with very cold continents. Some have theorized massive planetary bombardment from a multitude of meteor strikes. Essentially cracking the earths mantle and releasing massive amounts of heat into the oceans via volcanism that would also blanket the continents with massive amounts of ash. Problem is we do not find massive amounts of meteor strike evidence. Of course such evidence is extremely hard to find as 70% of the earths surface is covered in water.

PPS. Radiological dating is a giant 3 ring circus where they all pass the buck to a different radiological dating process for obtaining a "structure" of what the samples initial guessed age is. Ultimately it gets back to guessing the initial conditions under which that rock was/when/where formed. That is not science. That is circular reasoning. The only thing Radiological dating can do with absolute certainty, is set a maximum age assuming no contamination. There is a very simple reason that for determination of the age of the solar system/earth etc, we are looking at the stars, not geological radiological dating pseudo circular reasoning "science".

wastedfly wrote:Actually there is evidence all over the place that current geology has no explanation for most major geological features and their causes under Uniformity.

Thats because uniformity got rejected about the time of Darwin, so uniformity has been false for a long time.

For Example: Take the shale formations of the Grand Canyon that go from California to Texas and from Mexico to Wyoming. To get the stratification in its present form, it had to be laid down in moving water/mud. A moving mud stream thousand miles long/wide and over 2000meters deep?(more likely multiple mud flows over this vast area)

So a river shows periods of muddy periods, where it has broken the banks, and deposited mud? not unusual.

An even larger example would be the layers extending from SE Asia down through Australia. We can literally drive a thousand miles and obtain the exact same rocks with the exact same composition, stratification, and clast sorting.

Is this positional moving of Geological thought very close to resembling a global flood? Let you decide.

Its been this way for a while, and it still doesnt point to a global flood conditions. It only points to the fact that rivers and oceans can change, and have normal floods, tsunamis and such, which can effect the geological makeup of the area and strata.


PS. We currently have no acknowledged trigger event capable of creating the massive ice age.

[/quote]

Thats because we have several, interlocking parts of the worlds geosystem, interacting, that cause and end iceages.

PPS. Radiological dating is a giant 3 ring circus where they all pass the buck to a different radiological dating process for obtaining a "structure" of what the samples initial guessed age is. Ultimately it gets back to guessing the initial conditions under which that rock was/when/where formed. That is not science. That is circular reasoning. The only thing Radiological dating can do with absolute certainty, is set a maximum age assuming no contamination.

Its scientific. They dont rely on each other except to the extent of triangulation to narrow down the age band at the edges of techniques accuracy areas. Each technique not only uses the non comtaminated levels, but also upper and lower bounds of comtamination, giving us a bandof time in which the event could have occured, eg 35 -45 thousand years ago, and often the band is bigger than it needs to be, to ensure even in worst case scenarios that the actual age is still inside the time span proposed. Science, based on logic.

There is a very simple reason that for determination of the age of the solar system/earth etc, we are looking at the stars, not geological radiological dating pseudo circular reasoning "science".

Because we know geoplogy and plate tectonics destroy rock and change it, preventing rocks over a certain age from existing, and the fact that our current radiometric age dating systems only work into the 100's of millions of years, not billions needed for cosmological processes. Still scientific.

wastedfly wrote:

Zakharra wrote: As far as I know there is no geological proof that there ever was any global flood. There isn't enough water on Earth to cover the entire planet. We can read the geological record fairly well back to hundreds of millions to billions of years ago. There have been periods when areas flooded, but the entire world? no. That would leave significant signs of its presence world wide, especially if it happened only 5-6,000 years ago. That sign would be visible to any and -all- geologists and not something that could be hidden or kept a secret.

Enjoy your beliefs. Personally, I will believe in science.

Your faith in Geologists not being blind is unwarranted.

Actually there is evidence all over the place that current geology has no explanation for most major geological features and their causes under Uniformity.

For Example: Take the shale formations of the Grand Canyon that go from California to Texas and from Mexico to Wyoming. To get the stratification in its present form, it had to be laid down in moving water/mud. A moving mud stream thousand miles long/wide and over 2000meters deep?(more likely multiple mud flows over this vast area) An even larger example would be the layers extending from SE Asia down through Australia. We can literally drive a thousand miles and obtain the exact same rocks with the exact same composition, stratification, and clast sorting.

Why do we know this?

In the science lab where we can repeatedly test how stratification forms, it is impossible to create those fine layers under stagnate conditions. One cannot obtain the fine stratification combined with the sorting of clast size under stagnate conditions. It is impossible. It must be in a moving mud slurry. The immense layers seen at the Grand Canyon could not possibly have been laid down under stagnate lake/ocean conditions. It must be from a moving mud flow.

(We see modern mud flows obtain this stratification along with sorting of clast size all over the place.) A stagnant yearly sediment deposition gets the fine layers, but not the sorting of clast size.

The second major compelling piece of evidence is when one adds in the severe lack or mostly the complete void of varves burrowing through the layers of mud as is done in Stagnate ocean/lake layered mud demonstrating that it was never built up layer by layer, year by year as is described in dumbed down high school text books. In fact, the evidence was so absolutely fool proof(other than the fools who still hang onto their beliefs otherwise) that the Grand Canyon National Park service took down the signs describing the Grand Canyon sedimentation layers being built up layer by layer in a lake/ocean bed. Yet all the high school/college texts keep blindly adhering to junk "science."

No modern Geologist believes in conformity anymore. They nearly all believe in massive cataclysmic events interspersed by large periods of time to explain the geologic features as we have had multitudes of documented events showing the way.

Is this positional moving of Geological thought very close to resembling a global flood? Let you decide.

PS. We currently have no acknowledged trigger event capable of creating the massive ice age. To create the massive ice age one needs much warmer oceans than is current today combined with very cold continents. Some have theorized massive planetary bombardment from a multitude of meteor strikes. Essentially cracking the earths mantle and releasing massive amounts of heat into the oceans via volcanism that would also blanket the continents with massive amounts of ash. Problem is we do not find massive amounts of meteor strike evidence. Of course such evidence is extremely hard to find as 70% of the earths surface is covered in water.

PPS. Radiological dating is a giant 3 ring circus where they all pass the buck to a different radiological dating process for obtaining a "structure" of what the samples initial guessed age is. Ultimately it gets back to guessing the initial conditions under which that rock was/when/where formed. That is not science. That is circular reasoning. The only thing Radiological dating can do with absolute certainty, is set a maximum age assuming no contamination. There is a very simple reason that for determination of the age of the solar system/earth etc, we are looking at the stars, not geological radiological dating pseudo circular reasoning "science".

Shale rock doesn't form in only a few thousand years. It takes hundreds of thousands to millions of years to solidify into rock. Not 5-7,000 years or 11,000 years. Also, if there was a world wide flood that left only tall mountains above the water, where did all of that water go to? By reasoning and logic, it should still be here on Earth, yet the world isn't flooded still. Nor does the world's immense fund of flora and fauna show any sign of such a flood. Something like that would have been like an extinction event for plants and animals. Especially animals that need plants to survive on. There'd be salt water poisoning -all- over the world and the vegetation we have here would not exist.

Spacekiwi does a good job of pointing out the problems in your statements on geology. It honestly sounds like you are denying science and are twisting facts to form to your pet theories. I also find it amusing that you call all high school/collage teachings on geology junk science. With today's internet and interconnected world, there would be no way to hide anything like that. It's accepted and provable science that's taught of geology. You just don't agree with it so you call all of it junk science, when what you're claiming comes falls more under the term junk science.