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GOD EXISTS

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:31 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
Annachie wrote:England didn't go to mass in English until what, the 1500's or so.
*Snip*

For that matter, in 1536 William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English by the Catholic Church.

William was strangled first and hopefully dead before his body was tided to the pyre.
This man said that King Henry's divorce violated scripture, supporting the Pope's position.
Translated the complete Catholic Bible into english, not once using the letter 'J' in any of the names. Look up John Wycliffe, John Hus, Thomas Linacre, John Colet, and Erasmus.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Madeye_Malk   » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:00 am

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cthia wrote:I cannot understand why one would be offended at another's claim that God exists, at another's claim to know God intimately. In this case, why is a lie more palatable?

When a Christain claims that God exists, he is satisfying a religious obligation he has to his God and a moral obligation he has to you.

If I am wrong and God does not exist, I have nothing to lose.

If you are right and God does not exist, you have nothing to lose.

If God does exist, I will survive that too.
What about you?


The wager of pascal is such a nice fallacy of false dichotomy. The claim original was that I have this belief in this god, especially in the divinity of the man jesus. If I am right then I get all this bonus. hooray! but if i'm wrong, then well nothing happens...hooray? But that's ignoring the the massive amount of other options.

What if there is a god, but no afterlife, we just die and god fashions a new soul out of the nothing and carries on

What if there is a afterlife but no god, we die and we just mill around as bodiless souls (not minds because those died with the body) incapable (in as far as we know) with interacting with the world we knew

What if there is a god AND an afterlife but it's not your god. what if it's some alien god for some chosen people on some alien world. we all quite surprised to be face to face with one another but sadly this afterlife was made for his chosen people so please kindly go stand outside the gates

What if there is multiple gods and a multiple set of afterlife? we get up there and Baal is not too happy with either of us for our beliefs. My own not accepting on faith alone and yours for accepting the evil gods book as holy.

Pascals wager has been refuted to the point that to seriously give it any sort of merit is to diminish your other arguments.

A misquote attributed of Marcus Aurelius still sums up my opinion on pascals wager

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Annachie   » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:14 am

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TN4994 wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:[quote="Annachie"]England didn't go to mass in English until what, the 1500's or so.
*Snip*

For that matter, in 1536 William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English by the Catholic Church.

William was strangled first and hopefully dead before his body was tided to the pyre.
This man said that King Henry's divorce violated scripture, supporting the Pope's position.
Translated the complete Catholic Bible into english, not once using the letter 'J' in any of the names. Look up John Wycliffe, John Hus, Thomas Linacre, John Colet, and Erasmus.[/quote]

You do realise that's because Clasical Latin doesn't have a letter J don't you.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:34 am

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Annachie wrote:
You do realise that's because Clasical Latin doesn't have a letter J don't you.


Doesn't really matter because William Tyndale went to the Hebrew and Greek Texts. They also don't have a letter 'J', no do any of them have a j sound.
Ask a Rabbi and a Greek Prelate.
No Job, Jonah, Jesus, Jehovah, etc.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Annachie   » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:15 am

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Didn't know he'd gone back to the source, but yeah I knew about the hebrew etc.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by TN4994   » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:32 pm

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Annachie wrote:Didn't know he'd gone back to the source, but yeah I knew about the hebrew etc.

He didn't go all the way back. He allowed himself to only translate the approved texts of the time. He didn't translate the Aramaic, the Coptic, or Nasranisic texts.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by DDHv   » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:46 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Of course God can tell the poor sod he sinned. Being justified is being in a relationship with God. If one relies on soley on third parties to define that relationship and one doesn't do anything to personally develop that relationship, one shouldn't be surprised if the afterlife offers less that pleasant surprises.


Annachie wrote:You know Peter, that sounds an awful lot like Gnostic heresy. (I think I got the right system there)


PeterZ wrote:Not really. Its a basic tenet of Christianity. God wants a relationship with us individually not an organization.


More often the organization comes from people who are working the system for their own benefit.


Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy wouldn't work with a people who actively believed the God of truth and justice. Since it works in any organization known, we can assume we NEED a God of mercy. A basic Christian teaching is that mercy and justice meet at the cross, where God Himself took our sins. Since He owes us nothing, He has kept from being scammed by choosing to redeem any and only those who trust in what He did, instead of our own selves. For a summary, read Romans 3:10>23.

Note, this does not eliminate any need for groups to police their members. The Bible does say that God will chastise His children, but also that if they don't judge themselves, the group is to honestly do so. If the group refuses to or does so dishonestly, see PILOB, we get trouble :!:

BTW, this was discovered as a serendipity:

http://chineasy.org/ A Taiwanese young lady worked out an easy way to memorize Chinese characters.

Going a bit further found the Chinese/English dictionary wanted. The purpose was to test a statement that some of the early Chinese ideographs referred to events from before the tower of Babel. Some do: boat is a combination of eight, names, vessel; tempter is two of the tree symbol and one of devil, etc.

However, note that quantum mechanics is not obvious, so we should never assume we are correct in anything not plainly stated. One of my basic assumptions is that everyone, including me, is going to be wrong somewhere. I definitely NEED mercy :!:
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by smr   » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:04 am

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The real funny aspect of most the naysayers against God's existence in this forum I have espoused the same beliefs and ideas. As a result, I find it hard for me to criticize others because of my choices that led me down the road of a Godless existence because I would feel like a hypocrite.

My life changed when I had a near death experience. God exists for me and I have the proof that satisfies my soul or my higher conscience. I had an experience that exists out of time and space but was so real and personal that the experience changed my life. This religious, mystical, and/or spiritual experience led me to a different path. This different path led me to being in charge of myself and responsible for my actions before the Creator. Next, I took a deep accounting of my life and my interactions with others. It was so hard to forgive those that had hurt me and so hard to ask for forgiveness from those I had hurt. Third, the need to control my diet and my relationship with God. The idea that if I feed the body the necessary food without excess that I would obtain the desired weight for myself. However, I found that proper nutrition in conjunction with proper rest and exercise that disease and depression are warded off! After all that, I had to start working on my relationship with God. The relationship started with him allowing me to be broken and humbled before all. I state the fact that my arrogance and ego overflowed the cup of knowledge and when I emptied myself. That started a new journey in life. The remarkable fact is that my cup of knowledge is never filled or overflowing when I maintain a relationship with God! The real facts are that God was whispering to me my whole life but I was not listening.
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by Annachie   » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:30 am

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DDHv, the chinese writing system that that idea is based on is only 2000 or so years old, and gets it wrong on how the characters are composed, and in some cases don't mean what the article purports.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: GOD EXISTS
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:44 am

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smr wrote:snip The real facts are that God was whispering to me my whole life but I was not listening.

This is your experience with God. The problem is that all too many people who have such an experience (and I'm not denying that they are real), then place their boundaries on the God they perceive, and then insist that every one has to believe in their God, with their boundaries. It is in fact my belief that God is too large and incomprehensible to mere humans, and that any boundaries that we place on him are the creation of our own minds. As Archbishop Staynair in the Safehold series says (and I paraphrase) everyone must choose to hear God in his own way, and at his own time. He must make the choice to listen to what God has to say (end of paraphrase). This in fact gives us he ultimate control in our lives - the actual choice to listen to God or not. I;m not sure I believe in the Devil, to me it seems that there is a fundamental contradiction in traditional theology that has both an omnipotent God, and an antithetical force of evil - but if I did, anytime I think God is whispering n my ear that I need to be cruel, or to hate someone in his name, or force others to behave as I believe they should is not God but that antithetical entity, or maybe just my own hubris that I know better what;s right, and any God I believe in must be smart enough to agree with me.
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