Irreducible complication

And a big +1 to that Daryl.

You mean the Last Commandment. The unwritten one common to most religions that goes something like this:

If any man should disagree with these Commandments, kill him. Killing his family, friends and neighbors is optional, but probably a good idea.

Random is random. I once had the argument with a professor over god as the organizing principle of the universe. I countered that god must be gravitation since everything in the universe seemed to be controlled by the principle of gravity.
The human mind seeks to identify faces, We see faces everywhere even on Mars, wood grain, clouds, baked goods ...
It also seeks order so it makes order of the randomness of mutation (to tie this to this topic). We even developed a mathematical branch for randomness: Chance.

Being a spiritual person, I set out on my spiritual quest, got high at the beach and that evening left no tern unstoned

And I did eventually find something. It just had no resemblance to the anthropomorphic god of Judeo/Christo/Islam. Or, I think, the Greek Mystery religions Saul the Assassin fused with the Cult of Jesus after his epiphany and name change to Paul.

A decade ago I won a joke competition with my entry using the tern unstoned pun. I'll checkout copyright law and send the bill.
Your overall comment resonates with my vague understanding as well.

WeirdlyWired wrote:Random is random. I once had the argument with a professor over god as the organizing principle of the universe. I countered that god must be gravitation since everything in the universe seemed to be controlled by the principle of gravity.
The human mind seeks to identify faces, We see faces everywhere even on Mars, wood grain, clouds, baked goods ...
It also seeks order so it makes order of the randomness of mutation (to tie this to this topic). We even developed a mathematical branch for randomness: Chance.

Being a spiritual person, I set out on my spiritual quest, got high at the beach and that evening left no tern unstoned

And I did eventually find something. It just had no resemblance to the anthropomorphic god of Judeo/Christo/Islam. Or, I think, the Greek Mystery religions Saul the Assassin fused with the Cult of Jesus after his epiphany and name change to Paul.

I think the shaggy-dog version predates yours by at least twenty years.
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Off topic for a moment, the recognised all time best joke was (much shortened for here)-
Panicking new recruit on the two way "Base, base our APC rolled over and I think the Sarge is dead".
Base, "Are you sure?", recruit "Pretty sure".
Base "Go back and make sure", recruit's radio "Bang", recruit "Ok, now I'm sure he's dead, what do I do next?".

Imaginos1892 wrote:I think the shaggy-dog version predates yours by at least twenty years.
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

Daryl wrote:Off topic for a moment, the recognised all time best joke was (much shortened for here)-
Panicking new recruit on the two way "Base, base our APC rolled over and I think the Sarge is dead".
Base, "Are you sure?", recruit "Pretty sure".
Base "Go back and make sure", recruit's radio "Bang", recruit "Ok, now I'm sure he's dead, what do I do next?".

I suspect there's a version of that one involving a chariot and a kopis.

Daryl wrote:snip
The sort of epiphany that did come, is that there is something really impious about anyone trying to take ownership of a postulated godhead. Then telling everyone that they alone know, and that this only god wants XYZ, and we have to do ABC to get its favour.

The biblical view is that God gives his mercy, grace, and favor without obedience on our part. He just limits it to those who trust Him, which is within His rights. Part of the confusion likely comes because those who trust Him are likely to want to please Him, as a thank you, and so live at least a little differently.

Particularly ridiculous when based on millennia old oral traditions of itinerate goat herders, who probably never met more than a hundred people in their short brutal lives.
It then becomes tragic, when different groups decide to prove this revelation, by killing all who disagree.

Archeologists report that Canaan, at the time of Abraham, had many trade routes through it, and Abraham came from Ur, which was not wilderness, but one of the centers of the civilization of that day. Egypt, at the time of Joseph, Moses, et al. was another of said centers of civilization. Illiterate, they were not. I strongly agree on the killing part - defense makes sense, killing without good reason does not. Note that the Bible has a four hundred year delay before the conquest of Canaan, specifically because the Canaanites had not yet become wicked enough for God to bring the children of Israel in to replace them(Genesis 15:13>16). Also note that He passed through the divided animals without Abraham, which according to the archeologists meant that He took all responsibility for fulfillment of that covenant, in spite of Abraham's sins. The confluence of trade routes and the resulting strategic position may be one reason for the location: when Israel strayed, the Bible speaks of Him removing His protection, even encouraging invaders. The promises state plainly that the people would not end, but could be thrown out of the land, for cause. If you can describe others who survived as a people for over ten generations exile, having no homeland, please do so.

Back to irreducible complexity.
From: http://www.nature.com/ncb/journal/v18/n ... b3347.html

Here, we establish an in vitro system to culture human embryos through implantation stages in the absence of maternal tissues and reveal the key events of early human morphogenesis. These include segregation of the pluripotent embryonic and extra-embryonic lineages, and morphogenetic rearrangements leading to generation of a bilaminar disc, formation of a pro-amniotic cavity within the embryonic lineage, appearance of the prospective yolk sac, and trophoblast differentiation. Using human embryos and human pluripotent stem cells, we show that the reorganization of the embryonic lineage is mediated by cellular polarization leading to cavity formation. Together, our results indicate that the critical remodelling events at this stage of human development are embryo-autonomous, highlighting the remarkable and unanticipated self-organizing properties of human embryos.

Perhaps uterine replicators can be invented sooner than we think! At present, we don't have more than the beginnings of what is needed.
From: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2017/ ... 19-6644085

snip
In the lab where I work, we study cell division. As scientists, my colleagues must concede that embryos are made up of living cells, but they don’t accept the embryo as a living organism. If the early embryo is “just a clump of cells,” then you can justify abortion.
snip
On one hand, the data show that these embryos are autonomous human beings who are simply in an early stage of development. On the other hand, the licensing ethics boards and authors themselves justify the destruction of these embryos by categorizing them as the property of the couples who donated them. The authors act as if the embryos’ empirically verified capacity for autonomous development need not translate to the recognition of the autonomy of human embryos.
snip

Worldview has consequences, including disconnects from strict rationality. They chose to use human embryos, as well as animal embryos. Are children the property of their parents, or are they their privilege and responsibility

Of course it's a living organism. So were the ovum and sperm before they fused.

The question that must be answered is:

Is it a person? Does it have an independent consciousness and identity?
Five minutes after fertilization, the answer is clearly NO.
Five minutes before delivery, the answer is clearly YES.
Sometime between those two events, a line is crossed. When?

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Who's in the RABBIT?!

DDHv wrote:Back to irreducible complexity.

You know, when you say something like "back to the topic", one would expect that whatever follows will actually be on topic, not another diversion.