Kavi 27th century setting rexmix idea

Tal'Veck Race:


200, 000 years ago there were interspace race known as Tal.Veck this the Kavi nhame for them, they were a Methane breathing race but unkown what they looked like very few reacord were kept on that subject, this due to The Other jelous of anyone else getting there tech and info. Terrans discovered a cache on Mars. The Tal' Veck lived in spacal rift this why they delveloped FTL and the space Buoy system.


Tal'Veck die off:

100,000 years ago this race killed themselves by there own hand, the reason why is unkown but that's when the Tal'Veck started setting up there system of caches to save there culture and tech.

The Others:

50,000 years ago the The Others found there first Tal'Veck cache which start them on the road to intersteller empire.

The Others uplift of the Kavi

20,000 years from 27th Century, is the when the The Others upfited the Kavi race because The Others were a Brutish race themselves they needed cheap source of labor and fighters.


LW

I gotta ask, with all those long timespans and empires that stay stable over tens of thousands of years, are you going to do another one of those "humans are the only real innovators, everyone else is static" things?

200, 000 years ago there were interspace race known as Tal.Veck this the Kavi nhame for them, they were a Methane breathing race but unkown what they looked like very few reacord were kept on that subject, this due to The Other jelous of anyone else getting there tech and info. Terrans discovered a cache on Mars. The Tal' Veck lived in spacal rift this why they delveloped FTL and the space Buoy system.

What's a "spacial rift"? Why do humans not know what they look like, given that they found a cache of stuff from them that was untouched by these Others?

20,000 years from 27th Century, is the when the The Others upfited the Kavi race because The Others were a Brutish race themselves they needed cheap source of labor and fighters.

I'm sorry, what? "They're a brutish race so they need cheap labour and fighters?" What for? At what point does an interstellar empire that has been successful for 30000 years decide that what they really need is a bunch of stone-age illiterates?

See, my problem here is that I'm not a big fan of backgrounds that involve political entities that are stable over several millenia (and recognizably the same entity). It's not good worldbuilding, it's just trying to overawe the reader by making whatever change comes after humans make contact with that situation feel more momentous. At some point, some representative of these superstable cultures will inevitably expound on the virtues of humanity as "unprecedentedly quick thinkers", as "innovators without fear" or some other nonsense like that.

My question is, why is it necessary to use those large numbers? Why is it essential that they are that large? What changes if you cut off a 0 or two everywhere?

Have to agree with the E here. You are doing a lot of "set building" but haven't really gotten around to explaining how this all fits together. The logical inconsistencies are also very distracting, since the reader is left wondering "why" these things are happening, or "how" they fit into the story.

What sort of story are you trying to tell? Despite a lot of exposition, we still really have no idea what this is supposed to be about. Are humans using these discoveries and races to learn something deeper about the universe? About political organizations (human institutions generally decay after a few centuries)? About biology (humans have evolved greatly over the sort of time span you envision, why don't the aliens)?

Get some answers to these questions and you will be much farther ahead

Don't know why we all seem to have missed this one, but if the uplifting race were methane breathers, then what impelled them to go around uplifting creatures on oxygen planets? Logically, if they have some religious or other "duty" to go around uplifting creatures to sentience, (as opposed to building robots and AI, which would be much simper and cheaper) then they would be fishing in the atmospheres of Gas Giant planets to discover and uplift other methane breathing races.

Considering the vast difference in metabolic pathways needed to breath methane vs oxygen, then the environments will also be so much different that interaction will be quite difficult, if not almost impossible.

These logical holes in your "stage set" will prove distracting to the readers until you address them.

First off I was trying to point out that the Kavi race is the same age as the Humans in the 27th century,


Tal'veck Race:


as stated before these Methane breathers lived in normally a rift that's caught between galaxies, there no breathable air as well know it. As stated before why they were the first interspace race hence why there FTL is currently being used by both Terrans and Kavi. It's like being trapped in jar and this race spent all of it's racial knowhow trying to get out,



LW

I'm even more confused than before. What is the rift caught between galaxies? Do the methane breathers live on large gas planets in this rift or what? Or is there free floating methane available in the intergalactic space?

Your spelling is improving, but you still have some grammatical errors.

lwhitehead wrote:First off I was trying to point out that the Kavi race is the same age as the Humans in the 27th century,


Tal'veck Race:


as stated before these Methane breathers lived in normally a rift that's caught between galaxies, there no breathable air as well know it. As stated before why they were the first interspace race hence why there FTL is currently being used by both Terrans and Kavi. It's like being trapped in jar and this race spent all of it's racial knowhow trying to get out,



LW

Daryl wrote:I'm even more confused than before. What is the rift caught between galaxies? Do the methane breathers live on large gas planets in this rift or what? Or is there free floating methane available in the intergalactic space?

Hmmm....
It sounds to me like this rift may be a region of folded space created by the presence of two galaxies in close proximity (astronomically speaking). Such a rift could be better described as a sub-dimension with the 'rift' being the interface between this alternate dimension and real space.

Assuming that a couple of extra-galactic solar systems got caught up in the formation of the dimensional pocket, the gravetic stresses would have been quite extreme. This would have led to the gas giants effectively dissipating to fill the dimension and the stars losing a great deal of their mass. The resulting chemical reactions could result in a sea of gas (with a significant percentage being methane) kept away from the star by means of the solar wind.

As normal planets would shatter under the extreme gravitational tidal stresses involved in transitioning between real-space and the dimensional pocket (which is probably several light-years across), the beings that survived would find themselves emerging from their shelters to find the majority of their race dead and their planet transformed into a collection of floating asteroids in a breathable atmosphere. This would encourage them to quickly develop aircraft capable of functioning in such areas while the navigational environment would force them into a true 3-dimensional mindset (4-dimensional if you include time) rather than the 2.5-dimensional mindset of most humans.

Space travel technology would be developed as a result of them trying to find a way through the rift, it being somewhat analogous to trying to go upstream through a set of rapids. This would necessitate the creation of specialized drive technologies and with the rift being between galaxies, the creation of an FTL drive in order to be able to reach either galaxy within the standard lifespan of the being in question.

Of course, given that space is freaking huge, how (and why) they discovered Earth (being effectively non-technological at the time) is worthy of a whole new plotline...

Of course, this is only my take on it...

Michael Everett wrote:

Daryl wrote:I'm even more confused than before. What is the rift caught between galaxies? Do the methane breathers live on large gas planets in this rift or what? Or is there free floating methane available in the intergalactic space?

Hmmm....
It sounds to me like this rift may be a region of folded space created by the presence of two galaxies in close proximity (astronomically speaking). Such a rift could be better described as a sub-dimension with the 'rift' being the interface between this alternate dimension and real space.

Assuming that a couple of extra-galactic solar systems got caught up in the formation of the dimensional pocket, the gravetic stresses would have been quite extreme. This would have led to the gas giants effectively dissipating to fill the dimension and the stars losing a great deal of their mass. The resulting chemical reactions could result in a sea of gas (with a significant percentage being methane) kept away from the star by means of the solar wind.

As normal planets would shatter under the extreme gravitational tidal stresses involved in transitioning between real-space and the dimensional pocket (which is probably several light-years across), the beings that survived would find themselves emerging from their shelters to find the majority of their race dead and their planet transformed into a collection of floating asteroids in a breathable atmosphere. This would encourage them to quickly develop aircraft capable of functioning in such areas while the navigational environment would force them into a true 3-dimensional mindset (4-dimensional if you include time) rather than the 2.5-dimensional mindset of most humans.

Space travel technology would be developed as a result of them trying to find a way through the rift, it being somewhat analogous to trying to go upstream through a set of rapids. This would necessitate the creation of specialized drive technologies and with the rift being between galaxies, the creation of an FTL drive in order to be able to reach either galaxy within the standard lifespan of the being in question.

Of course, given that space is freaking huge, how (and why) they discovered Earth (being effectively non-technological at the time) is worthy of a whole new plotline...

Of course, this is only my take on it...

Well this is far more logical and interesting, and can be the backdrop to all kinds of story ideas. I have a mind to borrow this for my own use

lwhitehead; if you take a look at what Michael Everett did here this should give you a great deal more to work with. He took two of your starting conditions (Methane breathers; rift between galaxies) and did a quick analysis. What leads to these conditions, and what are the logical conclusions that come from them? In this case, gravitational stress creating a "pocket universe" which causes a vast environmental change to the solar systems caught within. This in turn drives evolution to create a technological, space faring race which is quite adept at living and working in a 3 or 4 dimensional space environment.

This does not answer all the questions (there is still no logical reason for them to seek out oxygen worlds or to expend time and energy uplifting any other race, two very critical issues for your story setting), but I hope you can see and understand what is being done here. This is the sort of background work that makes for a good setting and leads to good stories.

Thucydides wrote:Well this is far more logical and interesting, and can be the backdrop to all kinds of story ideas. I have a mind to borrow this for my own use

It's actually a blending of many different ideas that I've come across in the past. I don't think that there was anything actually original in what I wrote.

lwhitehead wrote:Tal'Veck Race:
200, 000 years ago there were interspace race known as Tal.Veck this the Kavi name for them, they were a Methane breathing race but unknown what they looked like very few records were kept on that subject, this due to The Other jealous of anyone else getting there tech and info. Terrans discovered a cache on Mars. The Tal'Veck lived in spacial rift this why they developed FTL and the space Buoy system.

Tal'Veck die off:
100,000 years ago this race killed themselves by there own hand, the reason why is unkown but that's when the Tal'Veck started setting up there system of caches to save there culture and tech.

The Others:
50,000 years ago the The Others found there first Tal'Veck cache which start them on the road to intersteller empire.

The Others uplift of the Kavi
20,000 years from 27th Century, is the when the The Others uplifted the Kavi race because The Others were a Brutish race themselves they needed cheap source of labor and fighters.

LW

Killing off a race is something that should be done with caution as it removes a potential Chekov's Gun from your story armory. However, the way you've put it does lead to one possibility.

The Tal'Veck could have gone into a form of suspended animation
This could be done by means of spacial/temporal manipulation, creating a "bubble" where time passes extremely slowly inside, say 1 minute inside for a thousand years outside (meaning that they've experienced a bit under 2 hours in their pocket dimension).
Since they lived in a spatial rift/pocket dimension, they could have experimented with the interface between their pocket reality and the greater reality, finding some way of "closing" the door.
But they would want to know if it was safe to come out.

Solution?
Caches of technological and cultural information, carefully tailored to make it seem as if the Tal'Veck were far more altruistic than they truly were. These caches would be maintained and overseen by dedicated AI's that would observe what was done with the tech caches and, should specific criteria be met, transmit a specific FTL signal via the space buoys to the AI controlling the array that kept the Rift "closed". At that point, the Tal'Veck's time-dilation would drop, allowing them to re-synch with the greater reality, and they could evaluate their options at that point. They could either contact the new species (claiming to be descended from the remnants of the once-great Tal'Veck civilization) or they could simply go back into hiding.

Result? One Chekov's gun primed and ready to fire.
As to why they stayed hidden? Well, obviously the Others weren't the sort of society that the Tal'Veck wanted to have as allies/indentured servants.

Ta-daaaaa!

Another possible bit of backstory ready to use.

Michael, if you would be so kind as to inform us when your story/novel/play/TV series/Movie/webcast is coming out, I'm sure we would be very grateful.

I like the world building here, you have taken some very disparate and unconnected elements and (even if you are just cutting and pasting older ideas) put them together into an interesting premise. The only change that I might suggest is that the "pocket universe" is not a natural feature of space (from what I understand of cosmology, "rifts", pocket universes and similar things could only exist near black holes, and most likely the giant black holes near the centre of a galaxy), but rather the originating race created it for their own use, with the rather negative consequences that you outlined upthread (shattered solar systems, filling space with the gasses of the former gas giant planets and suns etc.)

This might also have other consequences. Rather than looking for races to uplift, they are afraid that someone else might develop similar technologies and disrupt the rather fragile equilibrium they have established inside their own pocket universe. Rather than sending out "Monoliths" to observe and uplift sentient species, their "Monoliths" act much like the orbital platforms in David Weber's "Safehold" series, ready to rain down destruction on anyone who has progressed beyond fire to controlling nuclear energy (or somewhere in that continuum). Because of the extreme time dilation, this project has only been going for a relatively short time for the beings inside the pocket universe, although perhaps a few generations have passed inside the bubble rather than a few minutes [!]). This also means they haven't had time to blanket the Milky Way galaxy with Monoliths, but rather a few at what they see as strategic points.

Now this might be a good way to tie in the "war story" between the Humans and the Kitties. Since they have improbably developed star faring civilizations within a billion years of each other, they are sending recognizable signals that the Monoliths correctly interpret as technological intelligence, and proceed to start sterilizing planets. Since neither the Humans of Kitties are aware of this hostile third party (at least to begin with), they pass blame on each other and fireworks begin....