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Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by DDHv » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:13 pm | |
DDHv
Posts: 494
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Just found two articles on freedom. Since the FRT sub-forum has no thread on freedom at present, here you are.
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstos ... s-n1920463 http://townhall.com/columnists/rebeccah ... ampaign=nl An inclusive economy, innovation, and many other things are not possible without human freedom. The FRT sub-forum should have a thread about it. My thinking: God created humans as real people, in a real universe, who can make real choices, with real consequences. The difference between liberty and license is considering all the known consequences before making the choices. We have enough problems with unexpected consequences of our choices, we should at least eliminate those we know lead to poor results. Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd Dumb mistakes are very irritating. Smart mistakes go on forever Unless you test your assumptions! |
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Re: Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by Caliban » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:25 pm | |
Caliban
Posts: 83
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Would this be a bad time to bring up the subject of 'Hamiltonianism"?
I say this because it would seem that it's the system we've been stuck with. And If you have not read the 'Federalist' papers by Hamilton, I would earnestly recommend you should. It does explain a great deal. As a personal observation, they scared the stuffing out of me. And if you believe in a Free Country,they should scare the whatever out of you. as L.Neil Smith has said, I offer no apologies to Hamilton whatsoever.The only thing I might offer would be 20 feet of rope, and a tree with a view. Just a personal viewpoint. ====================================
"A wise man speaks because he has something to say; A Fool speaks because he has to say something." |
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Re: Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by Imaginos1892 » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:56 pm | |
Imaginos1892
Posts: 1332
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I'd like to start with The Bill Of No Rights which can be found in so many places and so many versions that providing a link would be a disservice. One of my favorites is:
Freedom means freedom for everybody, not just you. If you claim the right to limit other peoples' freedom, you grant them the right to limit yours to a similar extent. ------------------ If a business tries something that doesn't work, they either stop doing it or they will go broke. If the government tries something that doesn't work, they will just keep shoveling our money into it forever. |
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Internal barbarians? | |
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by DDHv » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:23 pm | |
DDHv
Posts: 494
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Worth thinking about:
http://townhall.com/columnists/bethanyb ... ampaign=nl Wonder if we are heading down a like road? Remember in Piper's "Space Viking" how the internal barbarians brought down some civilizations? DW's Haven Legislaturists, Silesia's greedy governors, and Solar League Mandarins all show ways internal barbarians can damage their people that have happened during history. I prefer the Safehold and Honorverse stories because of an enjoyment of innovation and technical improvement. These cannot happen for long when the culture is filled with internal rot. It is called "Social Capital." Real freedom is only possible with enough people with self discipline based on reality. Start with your self, it is easiest and pays the best returns. Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd Dumb mistakes are very irritating. Smart mistakes go on forever Unless you test your assumptions! |
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Re: Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by cthia » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:49 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
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Give me liberty, or give me death. Which did we get? Freedom will only ring true if those who are responsible are cast with the right mettle. Freedom must encompass a mix of all people — regardless of race, creed, color or national origin. Freedom must consist of a conglomeration to make the idea ring strong and true. Or it will only crack, like the Liberty Bell itself.
The LIBERTY BELL cracked on it's very first ringing because, freedom ... did ... not ... ring ...true. How could the bell ring true, when an entire race were slaves.
Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
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Re: Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by Lord Skimper » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:14 pm | |
Lord Skimper
Posts: 1736
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Freedom only works if everyone thinks relatively the same way. It still leads to problems, Northern Ireland was a Free society, sort of.
Everyone thought the same way, sort of. World governments will only work when everyone has a similar way of thinking and freedom of some form. Perhaps not political freedom. Societal Freedom. Economic Freedom. etc... Unfortunately no system works for everyone and freedom is a luxury that few can afford to lend out to others let alone everyone. Should the world adopt the communism of Star Trek. A one party Federation with Basic Living Stipend and extra privileged through work and a Star Navy based upon semi Military Fascist Dictatorships. With no main or official religion basing such practices as home or local only considerations. or the Star Empire of Manticore with a privileged few and Semi Constitutional Monarchy. With a Royal Military Navy Army Marine... Again Freedom is doled out in small measure. Here and there, Religion again in a small home local way is allowed, Economic and Societal and even a bit more Political within boundaries. Other Freedoms exist in the USA for instance. Where personal freedom is triumphed, if scaled back recently, and Economic and political freedom hailed albeit Political is carefully controlled. As shown by the 3rd party option and Ross Perot who never had a chance at real power. Even if he had the most votes. Canada has more political Freedom where small parties can get to rule our Country or hold significant sway. We lack many freedoms and suffer from Bureaucratic Institutions that kind of operate in the back ground with certain main stream Media. Swaying public opinion one way or another. Freedom is a luxury you can have in small measures and only in certain ways. It is not something to consider for world Governance but rather a luxury to be doled out to those who qualify or for the system that brings out better options. ________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars. |
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Re: Freedom: Comments and discussion. | |
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by DDHv » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:37 am | |
DDHv
Posts: 494
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From:
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnnant ... e-n1922257
Source unknown:
Real freedom allows some people to become good examples, and others to become horrible examples. Start with yourself, it is the simplest and pays the best results. A government or culture may support freedom, but it cannot produce it. Remember AE Van Vogt's Null-A series? He postulated a society where a method of training people to think before acting and to thoughtfully adapt to changes in the environment was the key element. Wistful Fiction is our cultural imagination. Science fiction is our cultural imagination about futures. The best science fiction helps us think through things that we may encounter later. Panic occurs when there is no idea what to do, thinking ahead, even as fiction, can help prevent it. If you haven't read Orwell's "1984" or "Animal Farm," do so. BTW, in the Honorverse, it looks like Manticore is designed to have a large measure of freedom because the monarchy needs to support the commons as a counterweight to the aristocracy. Aristocracy tends to go for power. The commons often can be satisfied with true justice, since they don't always get it. Therefore someone at the top can find it useful to aim for justice and mercy for the masses. Also, mercy should be a tempering of justice to individual cases, not a political tool. The NT biblical view is that mercy met satisfied justice at the cross, where God, in Jesus Christ, took the death we earned by our sins. Check out Psalm 22, which is the first non obvious thing I spotted for myself in the Bible. Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd Dumb mistakes are very irritating. Smart mistakes go on forever Unless you test your assumptions! |
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