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SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion

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SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by NHBL   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:33 pm

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spoiler
When Henke took control of the orbitals, why would Mesa even think of defying the shiploads of troops? If surrender wasn't coming instantly, no ground assault needed--that is the heart of the edict. If a planet doesn't surrender, nuclear strikes are permitted under the rules of war.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:25 pm

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NHBL wrote:If a planet doesn't surrender, nuclear strikes are permitted under the rules of war.


Permitted =/= Required. Just because you can (legally) Nuke a planet, doesn't mean that you should nuke them.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by cthia   » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:35 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
NHBL wrote:If a planet doesn't surrender, nuclear strikes are permitted under the rules of war.


Permitted =/= Required. Just because you can (legally) Nuke a planet, doesn't mean that you should nuke them.

Especially if you are a civilized nation with morals, scruples, values and a respect for human life.

"Because you can doesn't mean you should" stands center stage in the "Black Lives Matter" movement here in America.

Although, to be fair to the poster, the people on the planet have no way of knowing the intention of those who control the orbitals. And it seems that playing Russian roulette with everyone's life is potentially self-destructive. Literally.

The art of the bluff is easy to call when it is simply your wallet at stake. Not so much when it is your life.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by munroburton   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:11 am

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They had human shields. Any population strikes on Mesa would likely kill twice as many slaves and seccies as it did Mesan citizens.

We already saw Terekhov resort to highly precise kinetic bombardment once surrender was offered and explictly rejected. So the RMN will go ahead and bombard if forced to - just not with nuclear weapons.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by Vince   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:17 am

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munroburton wrote:They had human shields. Any population strikes on Mesa would likely kill twice as many slaves and seccies as it did Mesan citizens.

We already saw Terekhov resort to highly precise kinetic bombardment once surrender was offered and explictly rejected. So the RMN will go ahead and bombard if forced to - just not with nuclear weapons.

And in the Honorverse, there is no need for nuclear weapons directed against a planet target when kinetic energy weapons will do the job.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by Silverwall   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:44 pm

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Also there are plenty of legitimate military targets you can blow away with planetary strikes without triggering an Eridani scenario. Many of these could be attacked by pinnaces or ground forces but the attacker is not obligated to put thier forces at risk when an orbital kinetic strike is available.

These include:

* Airport/spaceport facilities that can/are launching attack craft
* Barracks and other military facilities
* Command and control facilities
* Key logistics routes such as highways and rail lines
* troop concentraions in the field OR in a city
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by NHBL   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:59 pm

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I was not suggesting that they should; I was just puzzled that the people in charge on Mesa defied the Manties, saying that they couldn't take the planet.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by pnakasone   » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:32 pm

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NHBL wrote:I was not suggesting that they should; I was just puzzled that the people in charge on Mesa defied the Manties, saying that they couldn't take the planet.


The EE has a major flaw it depends on the planets government caring about it civilian populations survival.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by Silverwall   » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:26 am

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Basically the Edict is the same as the rule about seiges in the 1600-1850 period.

If the beseiger managed to batter a practical breach in your defences you could surrender with honor and be treated with respect. If you fought in the breach and made the enemy assault the defenders were going to be killed almost to a man and there would be officially sanctioned rape and pillage as the enraged soldery got revenge on you and your people. A notable example is the siege and sack of badajoz in the peninsula war by the british forces.
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Re: SPOILER! Eridani Edict quetion
Post by Randomiser   » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:37 am

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NHBL wrote:I was not suggesting that they should; I was just puzzled that the people in charge on Mesa defied the Manties, saying that they couldn't take the planet.


I suspect they hoped the Manties didn't have the intestinal fortitude to bombard even legitimate targets on Mesa, knowing that the Mesan government and Sollie newsies would immediately be crying Eridani Edict violation, whether there was one or not. Just like there is no evidence at all that the explosive ending of the book is down to the Manties, but they are getting blamed anyway.
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