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Colonise for peace

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Colonise for peace
Post by svenhauke   » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:36 pm

svenhauke
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

i want to found a new colony

10 000 lightyears away from earth

away from this awfull war

away from the solarian league and its slaver economie

i need 250 000 brave colonists and a fleet

to go in the far beyond where no man has ever gone

to found a new society based on technology and peace

who will come ?

what will we need to make it work well ?

i want to found a university the 1st day we reach our new planet

we need a planet in a solar system which is earth and an asteroid belt for our industrie

we will take everything necessary to be a high tech society

come and join a bright future
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by Dauntless   » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:26 pm

Dauntless
Rear Admiral

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Location: United Kingdom

interesting idea.

most obviously you need the ships first. no point buy farming equipment/construction materials if you can't go anywhere.

next question are you taking warships? seems prudent given that fleet of freighters/liners will be a big attraction for pirates

where will you get these ships and what types?

not sure if the RMN put anything below the wall into mothballs, as they were always short of light ships for escort/convoy duty especially in the years before the war and during when so much yard space was focused on wallers.

personally i'd like a couple BC(P), 2 should be enough for heavey hitters, more if pos but we are a budget. not likely to get them so i'd settle for Homer class. almost as good as a Relient and given how much the RMN love the Reliant a lot easier to find. given the difference in combat power more then 2 would be great but probably can't man more then 4 or so.

at least 4 CA, again more if pos. I'd like nothing earlier then a Saganami A, though i'll settle for Star knights.

4 CL Apollo (flight 4) if pos, illustrious if needs be.

8 DD culverin class, javelin if needs be.

would also investigate if someone would refrit a freighter for me so I could have some LACs but most anything before a Shrike is pants and not worth the effort/money
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by BobfromSydney   » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:36 pm

BobfromSydney
Commander

Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:32 pm

This story has been repeated literally thousands of times in the Honorverse. Although it may result in peace for the first few generations eventually OFS has/will catch up with them. Eventually other settlers will become neighbours as well.

Ten thousand light years is a huge distance. Too far for any kind of trade, or even to summon help if a Manticore type plague occurs in the early years. It would be a risky venture that may provide short term relief from war for the residents and their children, but does not solve the problem of war in the long term.

If you look at places like Grayson you can see that civil war is always a possibility. There have been multiple examples in the Talbott Cluster (now Quadrant) and Silesia of governments becoming corrupt and/or oppressive.

Starting a new society is very hard. It may be difficult to convince skilled people who are at the top of their professions to pull up roots and head into the unknown, so it could be difficult to gather talented colonists (but not impossible: look at the original Manticorans).
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by KNick   » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:19 pm

KNick
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Location: Billings, MT, USA

From things I have read both on-line and off-line, 250,000 people is not enough to maintain a technologically sophisticated culture. In one article I read, it was estimated that the US by itself could not maintain an electronics industry that would support computers. With all the secondary jobs taken into account, it requires too large a percentage of the workforce to sustain.

I live in a city of about the size you have envisioned for your colony. It would die in a matter of weeks without outside support. It is located in an agricultural area, but we would still be hard-pressed to feed that many people off of local production and maintain any of the large employers in the region. It would also be a fairly monotonous diet (meat and bread) as there are very few local vegetable producers beyond back yard gardens. The local branch of the state university can not support itself off of the local area, alone.

If you are going to start a new colony, you must be somewhere you can get additional recruits, as well as having your own people produce babies like crazy.
_


Try to take a fisherman's fish and you will be tomorrows bait!!!
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:43 pm

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KNick wrote:From things I have read both on-line and off-line, 250,000 people is not enough to maintain a technologically sophisticated culture. In one article I read, it was estimated that the US by itself could not maintain an electronics industry that would support computers. With all the secondary jobs taken into account, it requires too large a percentage of the workforce to sustain.

I live in a city of about the size you have envisioned for your colony. It would die in a matter of weeks without outside support. It is located in an agricultural area, but we would still be hard-pressed to feed that many people off of local production and maintain any of the large employers in the region. It would also be a fairly monotonous diet (meat and bread) as there are very few local vegetable producers beyond back yard gardens. The local branch of the state university can not support itself off of the local area, alone.

If you are going to start a new colony, you must be somewhere you can get additional recruits, as well as having your own people produce babies like crazy.



Well put. In addition to that, over the long term, peace would be elusive. I doubt that humanity's basic nature would be changed by just starting out on a fresh planet. Meeting the challenges of survival would provide a distraction for a while. But eventually things would revert to form.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by svenhauke   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:50 am

svenhauke
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:36 pm

technology.. i asume robotic factorys in space, 25 ooo workforce in the asteroid belt

agriculture, again high tech agriculture needs about 1-2 % of the workforce,

production and design .. no design at 1st production should be around 50 000 of the workforce

military.. lets go 5000 lightyears away from the fight, no military, just exploration 6 lightcruiser size explorer


no one can even find this colony

i want this colony to be maximum funded

that leaves about 150 000 of the people free to keep tech working and expand

i want this colony to be maximum funded
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by HB of CJ   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:06 pm

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I wonder if when the Sollie League starts to come apart and fail, will there be perhaps large corporations or even large business companies who have the ability to move way way out into the unknown? Very far away indeed.

Religious sects also come to mind. There would have to be be some sort of command and control over the aforementioned large population base resulting in the large number of like minded dedicated people wanting to leave.

Kinda like the environments and situations resulting in the first "slow boat" colony ships leaving Earth. Only in this case it might be a larger group with the money and desire to get far away? How would it be done? $Expense$?

Excellent comments already given. Would such a peace colony survive? And ... just how far away have long range exploration and survey ships already gotten? Are there suitable planets very very far away? I Dunno. HB
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by stewart   » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:49 pm

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[quote="svenhauke"]i want to found a new colony

----------------

Sven --

a couple of questions to consider --

Has the planet / system been surveyed ?
At least 3 examples come to mind --
(1) The Yeltsin/Grayson colony left for parts unknown without a real survey and almost lost all due to heavy metal contamination (and not the magazine or the music)
(2) The Manticore colony almost lost all due to unknown microbes / pathogens missed in their survey
(3) The planet Hades (Hell) where you cannot assimilate local proteins/carbs. Stored / transported foods (even soylent green) will not last long.

Any surveyed planet though is likely either already colonized or claimed.

Might I interest you in an immigration project in the Talbott Quadrant -- Several planets already have a stable, viable population but DO need a technology infusion. Nuncio, Dresden and Split come to mind. Montana would be another option if you like the "great outdoors" but the Montanans tend to be a bit peculiar -- they expect you to say what you mean and mean what you say.
The planet of Taylor is supposed to be very nice and currently undeveloped, but it's claimed / owned by the Monica System and their leaders have a reputation for being less than completely honest.
There are several planets open for immigration in the Renaissance Factor Association, but you might have to accept "2nd Class Status" until you achieve full citizenship (possibly several generations).

-- Stewart
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Re: Colonise for peace
Post by SharkHunter   » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:16 pm

SharkHunter
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Location: Independence, Missouri

--snipping & squeezing--
svenhauke wrote:i want to found a new colony
--10 000 lightyears away from earth
--I need 250,000 brave colonists and a fleet

to go in the far beyond where no man has ever gone
to found a new society based on technology and peace
who will come ?

Me Jaw drops. I'd bet most of the Honorverse colonizing expeditions start with maybe 5-8% of that total. Let's also drop the range to maybe 1K light years and no wormhole proximity. Maybe additional waves following the first group would change that... but with that many folks in one wave, I'd have...

About 700 mega freighters, call that 70K of your populace for crew, plus all that cargo space and maybe another 80K worth of people aboard those freighters with useful talents to run all the machinery, grow hydroponics, yada yada yada. Plus your academics, medical, and prolong infrastructure builders.

We'll put half the rest on mining ships, and the remainder on warships to keep us safe. Maybe 2-SD(P)'s, 4-CLACs, and the rest in Nike, Sag-C and Roland level ships, highly automated yada yada yada.

That's what, 5 billion tons of cargo, and a fleet that would have defeated the pre- 1st Havenite war RMN. I think the colony mights survive. Fifty years later you'd have the Star Empire of Wherever.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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