Freedom in the Madras Sector

Enjoying "YARR" *yet another re-read* and came across this snippet about Michelle Henke's current tactical thinking, out there in FF controlled space, italics and bolding mine:

Shadow of Freedom wrote:"Bearing all of that in mind, she was confident she could sweep up the rest of the Madras Sector with no more than destroyers and possibly a few cruisers. And that, of course, left her battlecruisers, her CLACs, and her superdreadnoughts for something else.

She intended to use them.

Her orders and operations plan had been drafted. Within the next ten hours ships would be departing from Meyers for every other system in the Madras Sector, and two hours after that, everything except a minimal security force of three LAC squadrons would depart Meyers itself."

I've been thinking about the timeline, strategic, and tactical implications of that, especially given the tidbit at the end of Cauldron of Ghosts announcing the arrival of TWELVE superdreadnought class impeller signatures at Mesa, where Frontier Fleet under Thurgood detected TWENTY EIGHT entering the Meyers system.

Obviously there's a lot of tum tee tum tum in RFC's pocket or future smaller stories, but I thought it would be fun to let us Forum dwellers discuss the available firepower to defend Meyers, sweep up the sector, missing capital ships by count, and other assorted Tenth Fleet-ish stuff relative to Henke's Ops Plan(s) and why they should/shouldn't work as planned if any MAlign or SLN forces inadvertently or deliberately poke their noses into the Madras Sector's "revised management, etc. in the mean time....

For example, I'd thought three squadrons of LACs to be too few to defend a new ally, etc.

Thoughts?

You're not the first to note the discrepency between the number of capital ships Mike had at Meyers and the number reported to have invaded the Mesan system.

Some of the speculation I recall was that some (or all) of the additional units might be waiting in hyper to pounce if the SDF attempted to run.
Or potentially her CLACs might have slipped in stealithy at long range to allow their LACs to infiltrate the system before the big flashy approach of the bulk of her wallers.

SharkHunter wrote:For example, I'd thought three squadrons of LACs to be too few to defend a new ally, etc.

Since Commodore Thurgood's SLN/FF task force was captured intact, and no ships escaped to carry word of the change in government, there's very little to defend against in the short term.

In the long term, The Kingdom of Meyers should be able to take over Thurgood's ships (BCs and smaller) and man them as a system defense force to augment the LAC squadrons in the medium term. In the long-term, the KoM will probably buy out the the LAC squadrons and basing facilities to take over their own defense completely.

SharkHunter wrote:Enjoying "YARR" *yet another re-read* and came across this snippet about Michelle Henke's current tactical thinking, out there in FF controlled space, italics and bolding mine:

Shadow of Freedom wrote:"Bearing all of that in mind, she was confident she could sweep up the rest of the Madras Sector with no more than destroyers and possibly a few cruisers. And that, of course, left her battlecruisers, her CLACs, and her superdreadnoughts for something else.

She intended to use them.

Her orders and operations plan had been drafted. Within the next ten hours ships would be departing from Meyers for every other system in the Madras Sector, and two hours after that, everything except a minimal security force of three LAC squadrons would depart Meyers itself."

I've been thinking about the timeline, strategic, and tactical implications of that, especially given the tidbit at the end of Cauldron of Ghosts announcing the arrival of TWELVE superdreadnought class impeller signatures at Mesa, where Frontier Fleet under Thurgood detected TWENTY EIGHT entering the Meyers system.

Obviously there's a lot of tum tee tum tum in RFC's pocket or future smaller stories, but I thought it would be fun to let us Forum dwellers discuss the available firepower to defend Meyers, sweep up the sector, missing capital ships by count, and other assorted Tenth Fleet-ish stuff relative to Henke's Ops Plan(s) and why they should/shouldn't work as planned if any MAlign or SLN forces inadvertently or deliberately poke their noses into the Madras Sector's "revised management, etc. in the mean time....

For example, I'd thought three squadrons of LACs to be too few to defend a new ally, etc.

Thoughts?

The discussion turned up two other major possibilities. First, this could be someone else's fleet, the Anderman Empire being the most obvious candidate. Second, the rest of the wallers could be out by the wormhole terminus. That's far enough away that the hyper footprints wouldn't have arrived at the same time.

I favor the second possibility personally. Having vonRabinstrage arrive with a fleet, followed a couple of days later by the Manticoran fleet would lead to some interesting storytelling, but it wouldn't help get the series wound up in two more books.

Keeping units in hyper to mousetrap the Mesan Space Navy makes sense, but considering the number of merchant ships that are probably in orbit, trying to keep them all in simply isn't tactically feasible. Besides, there's no strategic reason to even attempt it (*). Visigoth (on the other end of the terminus) is going to know within hours, meaning Old Earth will know at some time between a couple of days and two weeks (we don't know how far Visigoth is from Earth - it could be anywhere between 20 ly and 100 ly).

(*) Well, there's one reason, but it's way down on the priority list: scuttle all the slave transport ships.

--snippping--

Weird Harold wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:For example, I'd thought three squadrons of LACs to be too few to defend a new ally, etc.

Since Commodore Thurgood's SLN/FF task force was captured intact, and no ships escaped to carry word of the change in government, there's very little to defend against in the short term.

In the long term, The Kingdom of Meyers should be able to take over Thurgood's ships (BCs and smaller) and man them as a system defense force to augment the LAC squadrons in the medium term. In the long-term, the KoM will probably buy out the the LAC squadrons and basing facilities to take over their own defense completely.

That sort of echoes my thought, that Meyer's might basically continue as the "capitol system" of the Madras Sector, and as you noted, the "change of management" might not be precisely obvious until someone high oomph actually wants to talk to Hongbo or Verrochio in person a la what Honor's folks did on Hades for a while. For anyone else in space they'll keep it as "business as usual, nothing new here, refuel your ships, trade cargo, and send ya on your way" as long as they can get away with it. That and Verrocho is still alive -- I'd imagine waving a pulsar near his ear, while explaining a few things (just before turning on the camera, of course) might improve his acting immensely and limit his conversational skills enough to keep the false front available for a while if need be.

Firepower wise, I'm thinking that Henke also probably left a number of pods with the LACs a la what Honor did at Sidemore initially, albeit with DDMs in pods having a lot more oomph and range. At the end of CoG, Elizabeth knows what is up, and I'd think that it is highly likely that that the SEM probably immediately dispatched a plenipotentiary from Elizabeth plus a nice-but-not-huge contingent of RMN ships via Lynx [given that Michelle used Grayson as her example of Manticore's "allegiant partner" example of "protectorate policy". Not that there's a lot in the cupboard, but I'd think sending a repair ship and a few merchies worth of "good faith and credit" munitions and a few modern cruisers such as the Avalons or Sag-C's, etc. to show the flag would be a nifty handshake, and let Michelle re-concentrate 10th Fleet for further ops.

I'd imagine that an SEM repair & reload base owned and operated by Meyer's loyal forces -- who can then also get busy upgrading Thurgood's BCs to near GA standards-- might strike the House of Thomas as a nifty prize and a nice way of securing the system and the sector as part of the proffered handshake.

JohnRoth wrote:

SharkHunter wrote: I've been thinking about the timeline, strategic, and tactical implications of that, especially given the tidbit at the end of Cauldron of Ghosts announcing the arrival of TWELVE superdreadnought class impeller signatures at Mesa, where Frontier Fleet under Thurgood detected TWENTY EIGHT entering the Meyers system.

The discussion turned up two other major possibilities. First, this could be someone else's fleet, the Anderman Empire being the most obvious candidate. Second, the rest of the wallers could be out by the wormhole terminus. That's far enough away that the hyper footprints wouldn't have arrived at the same time.

I favor the second possibility personally. Having vonRabinstrage arrive with a fleet, followed a couple of days later by the Manticoran fleet would lead to some interesting storytelling, but it wouldn't help get the series wound up in two more books.

It's hard to imagine. The Andies would have to leave too early, and for some reason either they didn't tell the Manties or Honor didn't tell Zilwicki at the end of Cauldron.

JohnRoth wrote: Keeping units in hyper to mousetrap the Mesan Space Navy makes sense, but considering the number of merchant ships that are probably in orbit, trying to keep them all in simply isn't tactically feasible. Besides, there's no strategic reason to even attempt it. [Well, there's one reason, but it's way down on the priority list: scuttle all the slave transport ships.]

Henke's got several hundred LACs to deploy. When one of them pulls up alongside a merchant ship and tells it to return to orbit, I think it will. The second time, if not the first.

There's good reason -- Henke should try to lock down the enemy's home system as completely as possible. She doesn't know that the Malign leaders have already skedaddled.

JohnRoth wrote: Visigoth (on the other end of the terminus) is going to know within hours, meaning Old Earth will know at some time between a couple of days and two weeks (we don't know how far Visigoth is from Earth - it could be anywhere between 20 ly and 100 ly).

Beowulf is more-or-less on the line between Visigoth and Earth, so close to 100 ly.

The notion of Thurgood's taskforce being given to Meyers does make sense.

I'm not sure the rest of it does, though. Meyers doesn't really face a threat, for one thing. The SLN certainly isn't going to be poking its nose back in there And risk another confrontation with Manties at this juncture. And the League is shortly going to have more immediate concerns than remote little Meyers.

So Thurgood's squadron plus the LACs should be enough for now. Maybe not forever, but for now.

Then too, Manticore can't afford to be too generous in parcelling out its hulls. Remember OB? Until her industrial plant is back on line, the RMN is going to need every modern ship she can scape up for the mission at hand.

Don

SharkHunter wrote:Enjoying "YARR" *yet another re-read* and came across this snippet about Michelle Henke's current tactical thinking, out there in FF controlled space, italics and bolding mine:

Shadow of Freedom wrote:"Bearing all of that in mind, she was confident she could sweep up the rest of the Madras Sector with no more than destroyers and possibly a few cruisers. And that, of course, left her battlecruisers, her CLACs, and her superdreadnoughts for something else.

She intended to use them.

Her orders and operations plan had been drafted. Within the next ten hours ships would be departing from Meyers for every other system in the Madras Sector, and two hours after that, everything except a minimal security force of three LAC squadrons would depart Meyers itself."

I've been thinking about the timeline, strategic, and tactical implications of that, especially given the tidbit at the end of Cauldron of Ghosts announcing the arrival of TWELVE superdreadnought class impeller signatures at Mesa, where Frontier Fleet under Thurgood detected TWENTY EIGHT entering the Meyers system.

Obviously there's a lot of tum tee tum tum in RFC's pocket or future smaller stories, but I thought it would be fun to let us Forum dwellers discuss the available firepower to defend Meyers, sweep up the sector, missing capital ships by count, and other assorted Tenth Fleet-ish stuff relative to Henke's Ops Plan(s) and why they should/shouldn't work as planned if any MAlign or SLN forces inadvertently or deliberately poke their noses into the Madras Sector's "revised management, etc. in the mean time....

For example, I'd thought three squadrons of LACs to be too few to defend a new ally, etc.

Thoughts?

I posted this on other forums. This is my speculations on 10th Fleet invading Mesa

Main Body

8 SD(P)
4 CLAC
4 BC

Mesa Terminus
4 SD(P)
2 CLAC
4 BC

H-Limit intercept units
4 SD(P)
2 CLAC
8 BC

It could be an Anderman fleet; there was talk of them sending a force to Mesa to ... discuss the Hofschulte Incident. When Emperor Gustav is upset, everybody's upset.
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It takes two to make peace. It only takes one to make war.

Bill Woods wrote:

JohnRoth wrote: Visigoth (on the other end of the terminus) is going to know within hours, meaning Old Earth will know at some time between a couple of days and two weeks (we don't know how far Visigoth is from Earth - it could be anywhere between 20 ly and 100 ly).

Beowulf is more-or-less on the line between Visigoth and Earth, so close to 100 ly.

Textev or at least Word of Weber please. The general opinion has always been that he hasn't said anything other than it's 60 ly from Beowulf.