Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by n7axw » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:04 pm | |
n7axw
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A bit earlier this evening, I was browsing through "The Enemy in Extended Space: SLN or MAlign" thread where the question came up as to whether or not the LDs were podlayers. At least some of the posters throught not. But having reread Storm from the Shadows recently, I didn't think that was quite right. So I poked around and found the textev that seems to me to demonstrate that the LDs are indeed podlayers, although the quote below is refering to the Sharks rather than the LDs. However, since the Shark is a prototype for the LD, it stands to reason that what is true of the Shark would also be true of the LD.
Also, since there has been some confusion about whether or not the LDs have impeller drive, the textev cited below demonstrates that they do not have a wedge or impeller drive. I fimd myself wondering how they move in n space. ********** Here is the quote SftS, chapter 40 "The Shark-class ships were much larger than Commodore Ostby’s and Commodore Sung’s Scouts. Any pod layer had to be, although these were still essentially prototype units in many ways, and they had only twenty-eight of them, divided betweedn Admiral Topolev’s Task Force One and Admiral Colenso’s much smaller Task Force Two. Substantially larger units with far more magazine space were on the drawing board, designs based in no small part on the experience Benjamin and his crews had acquired working with the ships under Topolov’s and Colenso’s command. Some of those larger units were already entering the firs phases of construction, for that matter. And again, Albrecht wished they’d been able to wait until those larger ships were available in greater numbers. But the key to everything was timing, and the two admrals had enough combat power for their assigned mission. Albrecht wasn’t the military specialist Benjamin was, but even he could tell the Sharks looked subtly wrong. They were too far away for the naked eye to see, but the view screen’s magnification brought them to what seemed like arm-length and made it obvious that all of them lacked the traditional “hammerhead design of a military starship. Indeed the lines of their hulls were all wrong, in one way or another, as if their designers had been working to a completely different set of constraints from anyone else in the galaxy. Which was precisely what they had been doing. The strike ships turned slowly, and then, as one unit, they went loping away into the trackless depths of space. And that, too, was wrong. The light warping power of a starship’s impeller drive made the ship within it impossible to see, except from exactly the right angle. But there was no gravitic distortion around these ships, nothing to bend and blur light waves, because they didn’t use impeller wedges." Discuss away... Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by Weird Harold » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:06 am | |
Weird Harold
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They move in N-Space with the Spider Drive -- it's why they don't have/need hammerheads as three keels instead of one. RFC has said they can travel through wormholes, and that means they also mount Warshawski Sails (alpha nodes) but outside of wormholes and Grav waves, they move by tractoring the alpha (or presumably the next higher) hyper wall. .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by SWM » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:12 am | |
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Excellent. I think it is fairly good evidence that the Detweilers are podlayers, though not absolute confirmation. Thanks for finding it! As for how the Sharks and Detweilers move in N space, that is the Spider drive, of course. We did not learn the name of the drive until later text. The question people had been asking, though, was whether the Sharks and Detweilers have both spider drive and impeller drive, which they can switch between. I feel that David's infodumps make it pretty clear that they don't, but some are not convinced. --------------------------------------------
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by Vince » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:21 am | |
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How a spider drive ship maneuvers when in normal space, and in hyper space but not in a gravity wave: Italics are the author's. When a spider ship is in hyper space and not in a gravity wave, the spider's tractor beams lock onto the wall of the next higher hyper band. -------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by Valen123456 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:04 am | |
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Its also an interesting thought that the Spider Ships are likely equipped with a Streak hyper-drive. Whilst (as the quotes above show) they can only accelerate in the same league as merchant vessels while in Normal Space, its likely that they can reach much higher (and so higher velocity) hyper-bands than anyone else. How much this counters their overly long acceleration times I cannot be sure, but it is an odd thought that these ships can be stumpy and sluggish in N-Space and yet zip along faster than anything else while in Hyper.
Regarding the spiders capabilities in hyperspace I do not believe we have any statements on that anywhere, but i would not be surprised if they have an "Alpha 0nly" ring that they use to create a Warshawski sail while in hyper. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by munroburton » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:16 am | |
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I was wondering what happens when a spider ship gets into the kappa band of hyperspace, the highest one accessible by the "streak drive". Does its tractors then fix onto the lambda band?
The reason merchies don't have higher accelerating drives is because even at a lowly 150g, it only takes a few hours to reach the maximum velocity in any given band(or n-space, come to it). A few hours' difference doesn't make a substantial impact to a voyage that takes ten or more days. The motor vehicle analogy are highways - this car might do 0-60 in 3 seconds and that car does it in 18, but if they aren't allowed to go faster than 60(yes, I'm aware a legal limit is not a physical limit), the first car thus only gains a lead of 15 seconds. Not very much for a journey of 20 miles, which should take approximately 20 minutes for both vehicles to complete. Curious that merchants don't bother with 'military' level hyper generators, though. Being able to travel up to 40% faster would mean significantly more tons of cargo moved over any given time. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by Kizarvexis » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:43 am | |
Kizarvexis
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Some merchants do for fast and time sensitive cargoes and couriers use military hyper drives. I believe the reason that they all do not use them is the fact that the 'military' hyper drives are more costly to install and maintain, so are not economical for all merchants. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by JeffEngel » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:44 pm | |
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I believe a post from RFC has mentioned that various combinations of "military" grade compensators, hypergenerators, and particle shielding are all to be found among various merchant ships (read: unarmed, privately-owned starships). It'll all depend on what the ship is built for and what capabilities are worth the initial cost and upkeep for the purpose and possible threats. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by kzt » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:58 pm | |
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The explanation is that these are much more expensive to buy, require significantly more maintenance (which means more crewmen), and require other upgrades to other ship systems. I tend to find this less than convincing, as a 40% speed increase is roughly the same as having 40% more ships. As the operating costs are portrayed as fairly low, the governing costs would be the bank note on the ship. So unless the hyperdrive upgrade costs something like >50% of the cost of the entire ship (really?) it seems like a money maker. Economics isn't the strongest point of the Honorverse. |
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Re: Sharks, Spiders and Pod Layyers | |
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by n7axw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:35 pm | |
n7axw
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Thanks to Vince for that quote from Mission of Honor. It was a quite a bit more comprehensive than the one I offered from SftS...
Also thanks to you guys who responded to my question. I may well have a defective picture of how this works. So let me try again with my question. We know that the spider grabs the hyper wall which would be the alpha wall in n space. But what happens when the ship moves away from the hyper wall to move toward a planet? How far away from the hyper wall can a ship get for the spider and still be able to reach and grab? Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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